[MUSIC]

>> Hey, Bradley Cooper, what's happening, baby?

>> You know what it's like when like a twilight zone episode or something.

>> You're watching the TV.

>> This is an episode where I'm watching the TV and then also you're inside the show.

>> And you're looking at me and I got the, yeah, I'm outside the show.

It's crazy.

>> It's weird for me too.

>> It's weird for me that it gets weird for other people too.

Like when I see people being weird about it, it's okay.

>> I feel comfortable just saying that.

>> Oh good, you look comfortable.

>> No, no, no, it's excitement.

>> It's weird for me.

I was trying to explain this to someone that people have a hard time being comfortable in the show.

I go, I kind of do too, it's fucking weird.

>> Yeah.

>> It's weird that that many people are watching.

>> Yes.

>> And then you start thinking like, oh, don't fuck it up, don't say that.

>> Right.

>> But if you think about it, the fact that you did this long form set up and that we live

in a culture where people at least say that it's all about short term.

>> Yeah.

>> It goes against it, the people are interested.

>> Yeah, well, the short term stuff does work, you know, like short attention span stuff

is very popular, even with me, like, but I have been resisting it more and more lately.

I'm like a fucking heroin addict, like slowly weaning myself off the drug.

And the more I wean myself, the better I feel, like physically better.

My brain works better.

I feel more relaxed, I don't feel like this, like Shugashan O'Malley, the USC fighter,

he said, even when I'm just scrolling, even if it's not anything about me, he goes, there's

just like a low level anxiety that I get.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, because like, you know, you're wasting your time chasing a

fix that you're never going to get.

And you're just like getting these short drips of like, oh, look at that, oh, look

at that.

>> Yeah.

>> Scrolls, scrolls, scrolls, but that's not what people really want, what people really

want is something engaging, something that's, wow, that's something, like a great documentary,

like which are still super popular, like a great documentary, they're still, you know,

huge on Netflix and huge on YouTube.

>> So this often Heimer was like three hours long.

>> Right.

Exactly.

>> People went.

>> Humans didn't change.

It's just you can hijack the reward system by giving them some short attention spend nonsense,

and it just like tricks their slow drip dopamine into like continuing to watch a stupid

shit, but that's not what they want, you know, it's not what I want, you know.

>> It's the difference between like, yeah, just a little drip of something that has the

illusion that I'm getting what I want as opposed to what I actually need, which is sort

of a reminder that I exist.

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> And that I'm communicating with somebody and I can relate to it.

>> Yes.

>> Which is a different thing.

And I only know this because I've never been on social media, but sometimes, there was

one time I got on, somehow got on TikTok and it was all police footage, you know, like,

and I was just, I remember laying on my couch, 40 minutes went by and I was just doing this.

And there was like the first part of the video and then what happened?

And then like the second part, part two.

And that was the only time I experienced, I thought I got to stay away from this because

I won't leave the house.

It's bad.

It's bad for you, too, because it programs you to think that that is going on everywhere

in the world.

Like if you have eight billion people that are interacting with people all over the world

and you only take the worst examples of that and broadcast it and then it becomes viral

and millions and millions of people, it rewires your way you think about human beings.

>> But the, and the other thing is about memory.

Someone was talking about Niagara Falls the other day and I thought, I've been there, right?

And I'm like, have I been there?

Or did I see a video where there was, or there was that one of the things when I put the

Oculus on.

>> Right, right.

>> Honestly, I can't remember, but I know what it feels like to be looking at it.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> So it's changing the way memory works.

>> 100%.

>> Yeah.

I've come, I've hit a wall in my memory, like a tangible wall because, and I think it's

connected to like Dunbar's number.

Like Dunbar's number is the amount of people that you can keep in your head, like because

we evolved in these tribal scenarios, we evolved with like 150 people.

And so the way Dunbar calculated it, there's like very close intimate, close circle people,

which is a small amount and then immediately after that there's a slightly larger amount

and then it gets up to like 1,000 people, 1,500 people, that's the most amount of people

you can keep in your head.

So it's like five people that like your tightest of tight and then 15 and like slightly outside

of that.

And it gets all the way up to about 1,500 people, recognizable people.

But I would think I'd be able to, that you could keep in your head.

>> Yeah.

But I'm way past 1,500 people.

So I'm fucked.

>> Right.

>> Like I am, like there's people that I know really well and then I see them and I'm like,

I don't remember his name.

>> Yeah.

>> 1,500 sounds good.

>> And it seems bad.

Like why can't I remember his fucking name?

>> I can remember his name.

>> I'm horrible with names.

>> But it's just because my hard drive sucks.

It's like I don't have enough room.

It's like you know when you, the old iPhones, it was like you've run out of, you know, Mac

Space.

Like, ah, Chase, I got to start deleting photos and videos.

>> Now do you get anxiety with that or do you sort of breathe through and say, well,

just the way it is?

>> I kind of just deal with it.

>> Yeah.

>> It is what it is.

>> Yeah.

>> But my memory itself is like very good and also very bad at the same time.

>> Yeah, me too.

I'm, I have a serious problem remembering people's names.

>> Well you think about how many people do you mean?

>> Like I was saying it.

I was like, and I've watched your social made sense.

I was like, Jamie, right.

That's Jamie.

Like as you were saying.

>> Right, right.

>> Do I remember any of the guys I just met, can't tell you what, I just met them, shook

their hand, looked them in there.

>> They say their names and it just goes in and out.

>> Yeah.

>> And some people get upset.

>> No, I don't.

>> Fuck it.

>> No.

>> You don't remember me?

>> No, I'm like.

>> You don't remember?

>> No.

>> What's my name?

You're like.

>> Well that's why in Hollywood people love to say, good to see you.

Instead of nice to meet you.

>> Yeah.

>> Like that you met me two years ago.

>> Yeah.

>> Like I don't remember.

>> Yeah.

Leonard Bernstein had a great thing that he would always be about.

I loved you and the last thing you did.

>> Yeah.

>> That's funny.

That's funny.

Speaking of which, I watched your movie.

Is this thing on?

>> Good.

It's really good, man.

>> Oh, thanks man.

>> It's one of the best representations of someone attempting to stand up.

It's a really good film.

But it's not really just about stand up.

It's about these people with this.

It's about, they're actual human beings.

These are complicated, real, not caricature-ish, not cartoonish people.

I get that these are real people.

>> Right, good.

>> They're complicated, real people that are trying to figure out their relationships.

>> Good.

>> In the context of this one guy, Will Arnette is tempted to do stand up.

>> Right.

That was great.

>> I'm glad you say that.

I moved to New York in '97 and then that was my introduction to any comedy world.

Other than with my dad, I used to watch Ronnie Dangerfield, New Year's Eve Special.

I used to watch it every year when it was Elaine Boosler and Sam Kennisin and Dyson.

>> Elaine Boosler.

>> I'm pretty sure she was on there.

I was obsessed with Dyson when I was like in eighth grade.

I memorized one of his records and I would do it in the train station with all of my friends.

Because back then, that's all you did, right?

You would memorize stuff.

There was no video to look at.

You wouldn't all sit around.

You would just memorize and then regale your friends and your impersonation of them.

Then Richard Pryor was my hero, hero growing up.

That was my idol.

I had this thing with Stand Up Comedy and I moved to New York and I'm all of a sudden immersed

with these clubs and upright citizens of Brigade at just starred.

I did this movie, What Had American Summer.

There was all these people.

I didn't even know about the state.

Remember that show on MTV?

There was a show.

>> Uh-huh.

>> All of this.

I just, you know, little by little, immersed myself in that world.

And I just became fascinated with the culture.

And then Zach Alfonakis, who I met, like in 2001, way before hangover.

I used to go and watch him do stuff.

And I just loved the culture.

And when Will was telling me about this, I was like, oh, let's set it in New York.

And the seller.

Because I just loved the geography of the seller too.

You go in the olive tree and you walk down into this place.

This is whole of their world.

And it just felt like, yeah, I really went like, can we pull this off where it's authentic?

Where you were watching it at home and you get a sense of the fact that you're saying,

that, you know, you feel like it got it, you know, within the striking distance,

makes me really happy.

This episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter.

Today's world will look a lot different without innovators like Gulliel Momarconi.

He was the first to transmit electrical signals across long distances,

It's like one of the only films.

A punchline was an interesting film.

The Tom Hanks, Sally Fields.

Yeah, of course.

But it was bullshit.

Like you watch it like with it.

I got lockers.

Look at the fuck is this.

And also the comedy wasn't good.

It wasn't real comedy.

It was like a felt flat and fake and people were laughing at nothing.

The will stuff felt real.

Yeah.

It felt real.

You know, like the clubs felt like a guy trying to work out what it's like to be on stage and open mic.

And then the fact you got Jordan Jensen in who I love.

Yeah, she was fucking great.

I texted her afterwards.

Isn't she great?

She's great.

She's great.

She's so natural.

And the minute I started shooting her and I was like, oh wait a second.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was like, and the first thing I shot where there was one of her sets.

And I was just up there with the camera and I came around and her profile.

And actually I felt like I was in the starsboard.

She looked a lot like Gaga and Allie like singing shallow.

Oh wow.

And I had like this weird moment.

I was like, whoa.

And then she was just incredible.

And then as it went on, she had a larger part of the movie.

And then that whole thing when they're talking about the small penis.

And we go up to her and just her writing that down.

And she was just so fluid.

And I was like, oh yeah, she's got it, man.

She's got it.

She's great.

She's real great.

She's a really unique person.

Like a very unusual pearl.

Like even just talking to her profile.

Oh yeah.

We're up on a farm with two moms.

And yeah, amazing.

Yeah.

She could do anything.

I know.

She's so fun.

She's fun on stage too.

Like she's great.

Like very smart.

Very smart.

Very smart.

But like her character.

Like the way she interact.

I'm like, oh that's so realistic.

Like we should fuck.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

And then you were back to the like East Village or Chinatown apartment.

You know, they live in one room.

Yeah.

I believe it.

Yeah.

It was great.

It's like, you know, you're never going to really capture standup in a movie

because it's like to capture what it is, you would need like years.

And also you would need a movie dedicated to it.

Exactly.

The movie's not dedicated to it.

Exactly.

Do you know what I mean?

It was just about, can I make you feel like you're there?

Or that you're with him on stage?

Yes.

That could be like, you know, the silence.

And then the camera's boom.

There's nowhere to go.

How did you work out the standup scenes?

Did you have real audiences?

And then they just--

They were real audiences because you have to hit the quota of extras

with SAG and all that.

But we try to do it as authentic as possible, which was everybody that works

at the seller, they're there in the movie.

Everybody who agreed to do it.

So all the waiters and everything, the staff, that's all people that work there.

Liz, who's the manager, who plays the manager.

She's the manager of the seller.

So all those people are real.

But then the patrons--

I can't remember what the email was or what the ask was.

But people who like to go to standup comedy, who go regularly.

And then once they were there, I never told them what was going to happen.

I never directed them once.

It was like whatever they're laughing at, that's it.

And I don't do many takes.

So you're getting an authentic reaction.

Now it's hyped up because there's cameras there.

And it's a movie.

But they're not told what to do.

It feels like that.

And even in the mix, we never added anything.

There was no added laugh, nothing.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah, yeah, it's all because I was like, it's got to be real.

Because I wanted Will to just, you know, I just don't want him to act.

Right, right.

And that's why Shane Gillis was kind of up.

The first time he went up was here at the mothership.

Shane gave him four minutes of a set.

And he and Will and I flew to Austin and were sitting in the green room.

And Shane was like an hour and a half late.

And Tony was there.

And he was so nice.

I'd never met Tony before.

And that's where I smelled the thing.

You know, I did this.

Oh, it smells like fuck me.

That shit is no joke.

Yeah.

And that was the first time Will ever went up.

And we were just trying some of that material and went up as Alex Novak.

Because I was like, when do you have an opportunity as an actor to actually do the thing

you're preparing to do?

Right.

And like, think about how much that would cost.

So you can go into a room with those real people.

Right.

And then every step that you're taking, you're in a club.

So he did that.

And then when we back to New York, he did like three times a week, four or five times a night,

for like six weeks.

Wow.

Just so he could understand what it's like.

And some people didn't know who he was.

You know, you get a lot of tourists come into New York City.

And there were nights where you knew that he, when he said Alex Novak, they're like, cool.

Right.

Not like you're not Alex Novak.

Right.

Okay, let's see what you got.

And so that was really, that was really great.

How did you, who wrote this film?

He wrote it with this guy Mark Chappell.

It was a movie that was more about his, based on this guy John Bishop, who's a real comedian,

who's a very successful comedian in the UK.

And he will met that guy on a barge somewhere.

And he was talking about his story.

And he was like, yeah, I was doing something else.

My wife and I were breaking up and I walked into a bar, a pub one night.

I didn't want to pay the cover.

That really happened to this guy.

So he put his name down and then they called him.

And then he was like, yeah, I'm getting a divorce and got a couple of chuckles.

But he just loved it.

Never done comedy, nothing before that.

And he kept going back.

And he like was obsessed by it.

And then like weeks later his wife, a strange wife, walked into a place he was doing

an open mic at with her girlfriends.

And he was doing a set about their relationship.

So that actually happened.

Wow.

I know. And then they got back together.

And they're still together.

And then now he like, he tours around the world.

Like he makes a living as a comedian.

That's incredible.

Yeah. So when he was telling me that I was doing another movie.

And I remember I was like, what are you working on?

Because we've been friends for like 25 years.

And he was telling me that.

And I was like, I just imagine Will.

Because I know him so well.

And he's so charismatic and funny.

And just has this presence that is kind of lacking.

I don't feel like there's like a male archetype now that fits him.

He's like, he's like Robert Mitchum.

He reminds me like a young Robert Mitchum will or not.

And he's telling me that I'm like his voice and like that face stand up cause.

I just couldn't get out of my head, Joe.

And I was like, hey, man, can I read it?

Like how far along are you guys?

And I read it and I was like, I didn't quite, because like you,

I'd never seen a movie that I thought nailed it.

And I love stand up comedy so much.

I was like, and I have no desire to try to redo it.

And also comedy is so massive right now.

And the specials are so great and cinematic right now.

That there's no reason to try to make a fictional movie about something that we can watch

as a documentary or a docu series or a show that is authentic.

I was like, so, but I still would really love to capture it cinematically.

So what if it's a foil and the movie is about the two of them?

That's interesting.

Yes.

And you suck.

That was one of the great scenes which Jordan was like.

Yeah, you're bad.

You're really bad.

And it's much more about just what stand up comedy with anything.

And you talk about this on your show doing anything that puts you out of your comfort zone.

Yeah.

Anything that pushes you.

You're going to, you're going to improve as a human being.

That was really what that, that whole thing is about.

And I just love the culture in the world and I thought there's so much tangible stuff there

for me to get excited about cinematically and story wise.

But really it's like, it could have been anything.

It's just something that he'd never done that had he had put himself out there

and that in doing it and doing it, he just sort of gets more comfortable, you know.

And then the mic comes off the stand and then he's leaning against the wall.

And by the end of it and then the way it was structured,

it allows him to do that vampire set at the end of the movie

where all he's doing is exercising what he's feeling emotionally

because he's comfortable in this setting.

Yeah.

Because the old him when he has that fight with her in the attic,

he just would have kept that all inside.

And he would have been cantonic at his kids assembly

where we meet him in the beginning of the movie.

Because you just don't know what to do with all that.

But if you have an outlet, something expressive,

you can, you know, exercise it in a healthy way.

Yeah.

So that's what, that's what, that really was the point of that whole part

of it being stand-up comedy and open mic.

What you really nailed is someone trying it for the first time.

You guys really nailed that.

You really nailed a beginner in comedy.

Like it seemed completely realistic.

Great.

Yeah.

And I think that's one of the reasons why Killtonia is so popular.

Yes.

You know, because you get to see, like you can't,

that raw reality of someone who has never done stand-up before.

Like there was people that went up at Madison Square Garden

in front of 16,000 people that had never done stand-up before.

No, no, no, that's, that's, you know.

Don't do that.

Yes.

You should be in a fucking smoky room.

Yes.

Well, not smoky anymore, but a tiny fucking room where of disinterested people,

where everyone's bombing and you bomb to it, it's not that big a deal.

Right.

Because you might have some potential.

But if you fucking bomb in front of 16,000 people, the pain of that,

you may never recover.

Also, just think about the audit, like because you're going to hear your voice

through the, you know, echoing.

Right.

It's can't be just in it.

Like, so there, I imagine there's an echo.

So you're not only bombing, but you're hearing it.

Right.

You don't really feel the echo.

You don't hear the echo because you, you have monitors on stage.

So it's going to be pretty flat.

I see.

Okay.

But the noise of your voice, where you've never heard your voice in a microphone

before, ever.

Right.

And now you're in front of 16,000 people doing it.

No, that's not.

And then Tony's sitting there looking at you and Shane's there and I'm there.

It's like a nightmare.

It's like you're, you're walking into a nightmare.

Well, what?

Just doing stand-up in front of like a guy like Shane Gillis is crazy.

Crazy.

He's sitting right next to you.

You've never done stand-up.

You're going to do stand-up right next to a guy who's selling out arenas.

Like that's nuts.

Yeah.

That feeling is nuts.

But it's wonderful to watch.

Because you're watching authentic reactions happening in real time.

It's not processed.

It's as clean, a mental food as you're going to get.

Yeah, it's true.

Yeah.

I think human beings really love seeing what it's like when someone starts out doing something.

Because a lot of people have these ideas like maybe I could try that or maybe I could learn how to play guitar.

Maybe I could do that.

But it's just the getting going and sucking at something in the beginning.

It's terrifying for people.

So when they see someone, just try it.

I think they're like, look at him go.

Look at him go, he's out there doing it.

He's on the bike.

He's moving.

You see actual people that are trying to do something that they've never done before.

And it's exciting.

And also, the one thing I wanted to touch on is the craft of it all.

That it takes a lot of work.

I know that it's not just the writing.

She says that one point.

She's like, you got to write.

Keep going up.

And I think most people at least I didn't know before I started going.

That people go up three or four times a night.

Like I didn't understand.

So that was something I thought was important to convey.

Yeah.

Just the work ethic that's needed.

Well, New York is really great for that.

And it's always had a culture of that.

It's had a culture of guys hopping from club to club and doing set to set.

Because there's so many clubs in Manhattan.

So guys would just, you know, I think the most guy I ever heard one guy did eight or nine sets a night.

Like they're just like that's how many clubs there are.

Right.

Just hop all over the place.

You start your night at like eight p.m.

Downtown.

Downtown.

Downtown.

Yeah.

You're all over the place.

It's, um, we've got a lot of that here now.

There's so many clubs in Austin now.

I mean, we went there.

What you've built is incredible.

Thank you.

It's culture.

It's fun.

I showed the movie to a standup who hadn't done standup in like 15 years.

And he said the only thing that's for sure you got wrong is the culture.

And I was like, what do you mean?

He's like, no, people aren't that nice.

And I was like, actually, I think you're wrong.

I was like, it's changed.

I was like, people are supportive now.

It's in where you go.

There's places where it's not very supportive.

But at least like I used to go to the seller like in early 2000s.

Didn't feel like it does now.

Right.

Well, I think Ari Shafir changed that a lot.

Like the culture of L.A. to New York, where you're like more supportive of each other.

It was always like dog against dog.

Because really the way it all started out was in the 1990s.

It was all about everyone was auditioning for a sitcom.

And if you and I were, if I showed up to audition for a sitcom,

like, oh, fuck, Bradley's here.

He's going for the same part.

Fuck that guy.

You know what it was?

Because it was like, that could change your life.

If you got that sitcom, now all of a sudden, you're fucking huge.

And I'm still like struggling to pay my rent, eat, and ramen.

And it could have been me.

Right.

And so there's this like serious resentment that happens in the 1990s.

Because everybody, like the golden carrot at the end of the stick was the tonight show.

Or you know hosting a late, if you could get your own late night show.

Oh my god, he made it.

He's a host of the tonight show.

That was like the thing that only one person could get.

And then there was like the sitcom.

Like if it really worked out, they'd make a sitcom around you.

You'd get a development deal.

So there was people would psychologically backstab people.

People would talk shit to people before they went on stage.

They would try to hijack their fucking mind.

Right.

Right.

Like really, it was dark.

Crazy.

And then the internet came around.

And then the internet instead of people being your competitors,

they became not just your friends and not just your colleagues, but also an asset.

Because if you're doing a podcast and you've got your funny friends on,

then your podcast is better.

Right.

And then if you tell people about their podcast and their podcast is better,

and then you go on their podcast, and that's better,

and everybody benefits from everybody else doing well.

So it became, it completely reversed the system.

And then it became much more about being supportive of each other.

And then everybody kind of realized like, hey, it's way more fun when we're all having fun.

You know, and since the television thing kind of died off,

the sitcom thing kind of died off with reality shows.

And then it was really just more about getting clips up on the internet

and about getting, and then there was Netflix special.

So it wasn't just everybody trying to get an HBO special.

There was way more specials.

And then you could just upload specials to YouTube.

And it became this way more collaborative supportive environment.

And then Ari Schaffer took that that we had kind of like established in L.A.

and brought that to New York.

And a lot of those guys ran with it.

Yeah, I mean, that's the way to go.

People always say, you know, there's a lot of room at the top.

Yeah.

There's a lot.

There's a lot of room and stand up for sure.

You know, and it's like, and everybody has their own lane,

even within this big highway.

Uh-huh.

And everybody wants to be with other people.

Who wants to be a lone wolf, really?

For a long period of time.

Yeah.

There's a few.

There were all psychologically destroyed.

They're just a mess.

Yeah.

Who doesn't want to have friends?

It's crazy.

Yeah.

I don't get it.

That aspect of the culture, I felt like in the movie, you guys nailed.

Which is a realistic aspect.

Good.

A realistic portrayal of what it's like, where a bunch of people just...

They were all busting each other's balls.

Yeah, you could be supportive and still honest.

Yeah.

That was the thing.

There's no lack of honesty or criticism.

Yeah.

It's just, it's not done with the hope that you're for your demise.

Yes.

That's the difference.

Yeah, I think the 90s, like poisoned a lot of comedians.

It poisoned them because it gave you this idea that the whole thing was about a means to an end.

And that end was a sitcom.

And everybody thought you just had to get a sitcom.

Got to get a sitcom.

And that was what everybody was working towards.

There's people that were developing their entire act based around a persona

that they could sell to the networks.

Were you doing stand-up before your sitcom?

Yes.

I see.

Okay, so is that how that happened?

Did someone see you?

And then they were like, oh, you got to, you got to try this show?

Yeah, I got, I got ridiculously lucky.

Like, you know, a lot of people say, oh, I work really hard to get on a sitcom.

Nope.

No, I got lucky.

I did the MTV, I never had any aspirations to act at all.

I did the MTV half-hour comedy hour.

I got a development deal.

And all of a sudden, I'm in living in LA and I'm on a sitcom.

And it happened in a couple months.

And a great sitcom.

I was on a bad one first.

I was on a bad one called Hardball.

I was on a sitcom on Fox, where I played a baseball player.

That show got canceled.

And unfortunately, I thought it was going to gut because I was retarded.

I was, you know, 25 years old, 26 years old.

And I was like, oh, this is going to take off.

I should get an apartment.

So I had a lease on an apartment.

But I'm sure people were telling you that it was going to take off too.

Oh, yeah, of course.

Everybody believed it.

Yeah, you're going to win an Emmy.

Well, the guys who made it, Jeff Martin and Kevin Kern.

They worked on The Simpsons.

They worked on Married With Children.

They were really good.

Oh, wow. But then the Fox people came in and just ruined it.

Like the executives came in and they brought in a bunch of hacks and just ruined the show.

Did you have fun doing it?

Oh, yeah, I had a kind of good time.

But I also missed comedy.

I missed New York people.

And I wanted to get out of there.

I was like, I got to get back to New York.

Fuck this place.

As soon as it was over.

But it was like, fuck, I got this lease.

So I had a lease for a year.

And then I got to develop a deal.

So how long were you in LA at that time?

Oh, I was only in LA for a few months.

Wow.

Yeah.

So I moved out there to do the show.

Right.

I got a lease almost immediately.

And then I was out there for a few months.

Shoga canceled.

And then I got a development deal to do something for NBC.

And they were going to do my own sitcom.

But as we were developing it, they said, hey, there's a show that we're doing.

It's called News Radio.

It's already been picked up.

We already did the pilot.

But we fired one person from the pilot and we want you to read for this.

And that's how I got on News Radio.

That's how it happened.

Like, that was the only second show I ever auditioned for ever.

Wow.

So I had one show.

That is a very unique track.

You had a very unique track.

That's nuts.

Stumbled into it.

100%.

I can't take any credit for it.

That's amazing.

This is my ability to keep it together in auditions.

Yeah.

And not track with no acting experience at all.

But it was just not, it wasn't something that I aspired to.

So it didn't have the kind of pressure that it probably had for a lot of people.

And it probably didn't have the same kind of relation, too.

Right.

Like, you probably, I assume it was not something you really wanted.

It was like, it was fun.

But you weren't like, this is, this is like, this feels right.

No, what it felt like is, ooh, I'm going to make get money.

Yeah.

And get some money.

Yeah, then something's wrong.

Something's wrong.

I was like, this is good.

I'm going to get money.

And I have to worry about money.

That's how I thought about it.

Right.

And then when I was doing it, I was like, wow, I'm so lucky.

Like, how do I stumble on it?

I'm here with Phil Hartman.

This is crazy, dude.

That's crazy, dude.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

It was a crazy cast.

Right.

No, it was Paul Sims.

Paul Sims, right.

Yeah.

Who would just left Larry Sanderson.

Right.

So he left Larry Sanderson.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

It was a crazy luck.

Just stupid dumb luck.

That's right.

Sorting to that other show with Jeff Daniels.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was a lot of fun.

So, but back in those days, like everybody was working towards that.

And fortunately, I already had that.

So my thing was just like, continue to work on standup.

And just work on my standup.

And if this all goes away, I'll just go back to being a comic.

And doing standup in LA.

Yes.

Right.

So that was new.

Yeah.

And that's where I encountered the worst backstabbing I've ever seen in my life.

So you're coming from New York where you didn't feel that.

You didn't feel it as much.

Right.

You know, you felt like a lot of shit talking.

But that was fun.

You know, the guys would make fun if you bombed.

Right.

They were doing it to your face.

Yeah.

They were doing it to your face.

It was a more like, it was just a more ball busting like silly environment in New York.

Right.

It wasn't no one thought they were going to get famous in New York.

You know, they were all just right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But in LA, everybody had this idea to get a sitcom.

And then in the 1990s, they started giving out development deals.

That was the big thing.

You get like a $200,000, half a million dollar development deal.

And then all of a sudden, you have all this money.

And you're living it. And so everybody was working towards that.

So it became instead of like people working towards just being a standup,

it became standup was a means to an end.

And then all these other people, they were in your way to get that goal.

Jesus.

And then your agent was telling you that's what you had to do.

Right.

Because they wanted that money too.

Right.

So it was all like programming people to go after the sitcom.

So completely different culture in the standup community there.

Exactly.

But then that all went away.

It all went away.

And the idea of working towards a sitcom is not,

it's like working towards a career in ham radio.

Like, it's fucking went away.

Well, you say that Ari changed it.

How did he do it?

Because he brought the LA culture to New York.

Ari moved from LA back to New York.

And he, I mean, everybody that I talked to in New York is always like,

you guys are doing it wrong.

And people listen to it.

Yeah.

Well, because he was established.

He was a really good comic.

And they were like, okay.

I think he's right.

Wow.

And they would come to, they would come to LA.

Like a lot of guys like Andrew Schultz and a lot of these other guys.

They would come to LA and they were like,

"Bro, everybody's so fucking nice here."

And they're all just having a great time.

Like, why aren't we doing that?

Why aren't we just having a great time?

And so it shifted.

It's just, it was the culture of the internet.

The internet changed everything.

Because there was no longer this one thing that a hundred guys were trying to audition for.

Now it was anybody could just put up something online.

And then all your friends became assets.

They all became like valuable to you instead of competitors.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Do you go up in these cities ever now?

I do.

If I'm in LA, I also do sets in LA.

I haven't been in a while.

But you know, most of the time I'm at my own club.

Right.

It makes it wait.

Also, I have teenage kids in there.

I want to be home.

Did you do the seller?

Yeah, I did the seller back in the day.

But more I did, I did the stand.

I did catch when it was there.

Right.

I did, I always did danger fields.

Danger fields was great.

Because it was like a hole in the wall.

There was hardly anybody there.

Is that where he shot his special?

Yes.

Wow.

Yeah.

It was big in the 80s and then something happened.

And by the time I got there in the 90s, it was like fucking dead.

One time I went there and I had a spot at like 830.

And I don't remember what time the show started.

But there was a few people on before me.

And I got there and the people that were on before me were sitting at the bar.

I go, what's going on?

There's no crowd.

Mike, there's no crowd.

There's nobody.

And so then this couple walked up and they bought tickets for the comedy show.

And this guy, Bobby, who's the dormant, like, step right up.

He was a Scottish guy.

Come on in.

I have, yes, he did.

He seats them down.

There's no one there.

Just them.

They sit down.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Danger Fields.

Your first act and we all did stand up for two fucking people.

Wow.

Yeah.

The whole night was two people.

And they had a great time, I'm sure.

But it was weird.

It's like when you're doing stand up for just two people.

You're only looking at two people.

But you also realize how much of your act is bullshit.

How much of your act is like fucking dance moves.

It's just nonsense.

Like English on the cue ball.

It's like you're doing a lot of silly things that like don't even...

And you're not connecting with real humans.

Right.

And when there's two people there, it like cuts the fat out of all of your...

Yeah.

Of course.

And you recognize where the flaws and your writing are and the flaws and your delivery.

But Danger Fields was...

It was a wild little place.

It was like a classic comedy club that didn't have any...

No industry went there.

No agents.

No managers went there.

Always.

Yeah.

It was just like a bunch of weird degenerates and it was fun.

Wow.

That was fun place.

So I did that club a lot.

But a lot of...

I did the road a lot.

Yeah.

Because that was how I could make money.

And I could headline.

Like I do an hour.

Because if you're in the city, you're doing 15 minutes sets or 10 minutes sets.

Like, that's great.

But it's hard to piece together an hour at a 10 minute sets.

Because you kind of want to let the material breathe and put it all together.

Yeah, of course.

Composing to one big thing.

And you really can work on that a lot more if you're actually headlining.

Do you watch a lot of specials, comedy specials nowadays?

I don't.

I watch a lot of comics like when I see the club.

Right.

You're not like...

No, I probably should.

I probably should watch more of them.

But really comedy is...it's like an artistic form of hypnosis.

And the real way to see comedy is to be there live.

Right.

Because you're like...

And you know when the person's locked in and you know when they're not.

You feel it.

They got you.

Like they're thinking for you.

Yeah.

If I'm watching a tell.

And he's at like the mothership and he's killing.

Like we're all like this.

So we're like locked into his brain.

And we're letting him like take us on a ride.

And then he was in many locations, but he was playing music a lot.

Yeah, I just like watching everybody's different, you know, sort of exploration of different stand-up shows.

Because it's such a huge, viable market.

So people, you know, it's it's fun to watch how they do it.

I think that's probably why because I watch so many of them I wanted to do it in a way in a movie.

Have you done stand-up at all?

Never, never, never.

No.

Have you thought about it?

No.

When you were doing the film, did you think about doing it?

No, no.

No.

Yeah, and I don't know why, Joe.

Yeah.

But no, I just it's not like one of those things that I feel compelled to do.

But would it would it be fun would I be scared all those things?

Will I try and open Mike one night?

Yeah, I probably should.

But it's not I didn't feel compelled to do it.

No.

The problem would be if you did it and it went okay, but you're like, I think I could do better.

And then I'm and then you're gone.

You know me.

I know everybody.

It's kind of the same thing with all of us.

Yeah, of course, dude.

There's always a part of you.

Yeah, I think I can do better.

And the next thing you know, like I got to leave, I got to go do a set.

Right.

What the fuck are you doing?

That I have any dinner.

No.

It's like all artistic pursuits, they can become an obsession and they become an addiction and they become a part of you.

Yeah.

And then it's like your brain naturally goes towards that pathway of thinking about that thing all day.

Yeah.

Which I love.

Oh, it's great.

It's a fun thing.

I remember being 11 and watching the elephant man and knowing at that moment.

You okay?

Yeah, sweat.

Yeah.

Just going to take this knowing at that moment that like, oh, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

When you saw the elephant man.

Yeah, really?

Yeah, I remember.

How was it that movie?

I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I've thought about it a lot, obviously.

For David Lynch directed it.

I remember the scene, Anthony Hopkins.

I would loved film.

So I always loved film.

My dad loved film.

But it wasn't like a conscious thing where I was like, this is it.

And I remember, you know, in my living room, it's on the TV.

I saw all the movies on the TV.

You know, I never saw "Pocalypse Now" in a movie theater.

Godfather or anything.

Right.

The willingness to long as it's runner.

You know, none of it.

It was all on the television.

But I was watching the elephant man.

It was on HBO.

It came through Philadelphia where I lived.

Comcast.

And they would show like it all the time.

And it was Anthony Hopkins coming in and he's seeing Joseph Merrick, the elephant man for the first time.

And the way David Lynch shot it, you only see his shadow.

And then Hopkins starts crying.

And I don't know.

I was just like, I was there in that cellar with him.

And I was like, I forgot I was in the living room.

And then the whole movie was like that.

And it came out.

I was like, I just want that.

So was that like the first scene that was planted?

Yeah, that was it.

It was the first and only.

It was, I was 11.

It was like, it was like, bam.

It was like a shot.

There's a scene right here.

There's a scene right here.

Yeah, it's right here.

It's this.

This is it.

I look like young Anthony Hopkins.

Yeah, it looks.

Yeah, he was incredible.

Stand up.

Stand up.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Turn around.

Wow.

Wow.

That was it.

Yeah.

Wow.

That was it.

Yeah.

Wow.

It was like watching that now.

Yeah.

Thinking that that came to the sea to change your whole life.

I'm like, well, first I thought, wasn't it a shadow?

But that was before.

And then I'm like, oh, yeah.

And then, yeah.

And then I was just in it.

And then I was there.

And then I was like, is Joe in it?

Does he know what I'm talking about?

And then I was, and then as my brain started going,

the movie kept bringing me in it.

Yeah.

And then by the end, by that push, and I was like,

I'm just watching this guy look at this thing for the first time.

And then, fuck, look at this beast Anthony Hopkins.

I wonder what he was looking at when he was crying.

I know.

You know, because he pulled that out of your eyeballs.

Oh, dude.

And I wrote, so I went to grad school and moved to New York,

wrote him a letter because our dean said somehow he knew him or he had,

the school I went to, then I only got into because they let anybody in.

They did that show inside the actor studio.

Do you remember that on TV?

Yeah.

I remember that show.

And so Arthesis was the show.

There was a class, but it was a class, like technically a class.

And so all these incredible people would come on.

And Anthony Hopkins was there.

And I was there for that.

And then I wrote him a letter just telling him,

and I asked James Lipton.

That was his name, the dean.

Yeah.

And then, you know, and then never, you know,

I never heard from him ever.

And then, you know, and now I know him, dude.

You know what I'm saying?

How weird.

It's crazy.

It's so weird, right?

I never get over that.

Me neither.

Ever.

Ever.

And there's some guys, I don't know if you feel this way too,

like there's some guys, like then they become your friends.

But still, I still feel a little bit of like extra energy when I'm around them.

Like it'll never go away.

Right.

Yeah.

For sure.

It's crazy.

For me, one of the big ones was Tarantino.

Like hanging out with Tarantino.

Yeah.

It's so odd going to dinner with him.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, it's so odd going to dinner with him here.

Him coming to the club.

He come hang out in the green room.

It's nuts.

It's just weird.

It's like that's Quentin Tarantino.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it never goes away.

It's close as you get.

And even when your brain's off.

Right.

Because that's always the limit.

It's my brain off when I'm with the person.

Right.

That's like when like, okay.

Right.

And even like Clint Eastwood, who I did American sniper with.

I mean, it was always Clint Eastwood.

And I got to the point where my brain was off.

You know, but still I'm just like, what if my dad was alive?

He would flip the fuck out.

What was like doing that scene with the fake baby?

Was that weird?

It's so funny.

I was just talking about that two days ago, dude.

And you know, I've come full circle.

Yeah.

I actually think it's dope.

Really?

I mean, it's fucking dope.

Why?

Because it's so just like, wow, look at these people fully invested.

And it's a doll.

And he's like a scene where you like kind of like move in the hand.

Yeah.

I could tell you the whole thing.

So we had three sets of twins.

And Clint likes to shoot fast, which I loved and love.

And they were crying and they weren't ready.

And he was like, you know what?

Let's just put the doll in.

And I was like, okay, I was like, all right.

And I had the doll.

And I remember it.

And I made a joke on set.

And I was like, I'll just save you 35 grand.

Because I moved his hand with my thumb.

You know, like I saved visual effects like 50 grand.

Like made a joke about it.

And then we got to post and we were in Vancouver at the doing the meeting.

But you know, everybody defers to the boss.

I still remember being in a room.

And I'm like a theater.

We're watching.

And they're like, okay, Clint.

So we did this.

And you know, the tank has dirt on it.

And you know, whatever visual effects they had done.

We get to the baby.

I'm like, okay, Clint.

This is this scene.

And it ends.

And I'm literally behind Clint.

I just see the back of his head.

And I'm waiting for everybody to raise their hand.

Like we got to spend more money and make the kid real.

And I think the kid had like two fingers too.

Like they weren't even.

It was like, yeah, yeah, that's it.

Yeah, that's it.

That's me.

I'm doing that.

That's it.

But dude, it's kind of dope.

I love it now.

I've come full circle.

And I raised my hand.

And I was like, Clint, I just think that it's clear, you know,

that that's not a baby.

And what would we do?

Can we at least just find out what the cost would be?

And no one said anything.

And then I remember, he was like, I think we move on.

Wow.

And that was it, dude.

And I was like, okay, okay.

And I remember talking to the other producer.

I was like, this is going to come back.

I was like, bro, this is going to come back to haunt us.

And I remember he said, no, Bradley, you're too close to the movie.

I was like, I don't think so, dude.

No, everybody's like, this is crazy.

That's a rubber baby.

Crazy, dude.

There's another one too.

And like, yeah, yeah, it's crazy.

What is it like doing a film like that where you're playing an actual human being?

Is that, is that different?

Then like a written character that has no physical body that you can kind of become

who you think the words represent.

Yeah.

But when you're playing a guy like Chris Kyle, you're playing a human.

Yeah.

And you're trying to figure out a way to make it as realistic as possible.

But you're acting like, what is that like?

I mean, the thing that just popped my head is the pressure.

It's like night and day because there are people that you have to serve.

You know, especially with Chris Kyle, we started making that movie.

He was alive.

He got killed while we were, he was still negotiating with Warner Brothers.

I know, I think we just closed his deal.

And then he was murdered on February 2nd, I believe.

And it was just like, whoa.

And then, but in fact, we were like, now we really got to make this movie.

And then Clinton, I flew to Midlothian, Texas and met with his family and his widow

and his parents and then the kids.

I did the alpha man.

I did as a play in my thesis in grad school.

And then I did it at Williamstown and I actually did it in New York and London.

And that, and even though it's a long time ago, that was the first time I felt that responsibility.

I actually loved that guy, Joseph Merrick.

And I felt that responsibility to him.

So I had done something like that before.

But this was the first, this was the next time.

It was massive, Joe.

But I think that that it's like, you're always looking for what's the fuel that's going to allow me to work as hard as I can.

And the fuel when you're playing a real person is like, there's like four extra canisters.

Or like, that's a firepower for you to work hard.

Because you're just, you know, you're looking across the eyes of somebody.

Say, I'm going to serve your son or your husband or your father.

It's a major responsibility.

Maybe even more major because he's now he's deceased.

Yeah.

It was mind blowing.

But it terrified me.

And also, like, I'm 185 pounds at that point from Northeast Philadelphia.

This guy's from Lothian, Texas.

Sealed team three, you know, it's like how and the way Clint works, the way we did work.

You know, Kevin Lase, who was a Sealed team three with Chris, was in the movie plate, "Dauber".

Jacob Chico is one tribe, which is what I'm wearing.

He was a Marine that, did you ever see American sniper?

Yes.

Yeah.

There's that scene where he goes to the hospital and there's all the guys that have been wounded.

Jacob Chico is one of them.

You know, so there's real guys.

It's all real.

So I step in.

You know, I've got to, I'm going to die unless I believe I'm quick.

Right.

Like, so I have to do whatever I can so that I believe I'm Chris.

If I believe I'm Chris, then I have a shot at everybody else potentially going along with this illusion.

I just have to, I have to be absolutely fearless when I walked on set.

So I just, it just made me work so hard that I'd never worked hard.

That if it's a created character, you know, it's different.

But it comes with a different set of challenges.

You know, it just depends about it.

But I do know, and then with Leonard Bernstein, I do the same thing, huge responsibility.

Like massive that I felt to his kids, to people that loved him.

But mainly his kids, all three of his son has passed away since then.

But there's three kids who are like, okay, you know, they're like handing you, you know,

it's like if someone went to your daughter in 12 years and said, here's this movie about your father.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And this guy's sitting across and be like, okay, I'm going to play your father.

That's just a whole other thing.

Because the truth is, like if it's good, it's going to last a long time.

And it's going to be a thing that marks their journey.

Right.

So I'm a part of whatever little part of Chris's journey.

So you give somebody, you, the faith that whoever has the power to give to that artist is just, you know.

So it just made me work, you know, like you just, you just don't stop working.

Do you get to the point where you believe you're him or you believe that he's a part of you?

Something's working.

Did you meet Chris Kyle?

Never.

Just talked to him on the phone once.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So what did you, like what did you train?

Oh, yeah.

Like what did you do to try to like, yeah, well, he's, it's interesting, right?

It's like, well, I couldn't do anything that would ever achieve what he achieved.

But it's like, what can I do to look like a master?

Right.

Right. So there's three weapons, the 338 Lapua, the 50 cal, the rifle.

It's like, what can I do?

How much time do I have?

I think I'd like six months.

Also, luckily, we're the same shoe size, same age.

He has a hole in his ear.

I do.

You find things that like, you know, same height.

I was like, oh, this is great.

And then I just like, but he's 2038 pounds.

So the first thing was 6,000 calories a day, found a trainer and just.

6,000? Yeah, 6,000 calories.

I'll first I did it with real food.

And that was a big mistake because I couldn't get up.

I remember the first week I did it had an incredible chef.

And, and, and then I would, I couldn't get up.

Like I couldn't move, like I couldn't move my stomach.

So then we, I think we split like half of it into protein shakes.

But it was still 6,000 calories.

When you say you couldn't get up, like, what do you mean?

My stomach wasn't able to process that much food.

Yeah, whatever, whatever happened, like just getting blocked, getting blocked.

Like major pain, like I was giving birth or something, what I would imagine.

So then we changed it and it would be like huge meal shake, huge meal shake.

Worked out twice a day, five, I had three rest days, no cardio.

Because all about strength training.

And then, and then it was all focused around deadlifting.

Oh, okay.

And it was Guy Jason Wallace who I worked with.

And, and I did that.

So it would be like Monday, Monday, 5 30 a.m.

And then a 4 30 p.m.

Or like 3 30 Monday, Tuesday, rest Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, rest Saturday, Sunday.

And did that.

And I got up to 230 pounds.

And a lot of it was like, 'cause I was thinking about him, his neck.

And so I came like, I would do all these, all the next stuff.

And it was his shoulders.

Like I just wanted to see you could shoot over.

And it's like, you know, which we did all the time in the movie.

Where the guys just, you know, Chris.

Yeah.

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To create teen.

Yeah.

Which by the way, I just started again like three months ago.

Oh, it's amazing.

Dude.

I'm on this push-up thread with a bunch of dads at my school.

And we do 100 push-ups a day.

And if we don't, you have to pay $10 into a pool.

And then when we get to 800, we go to Chinatown.

And I'll have a meal with the money.

And then I started taking creatine like two and a half months ago.

And we just up to 150.

I was like this is because I could only do, and we'd like YouTube the perfect push-up.

Which I didn't know.

Which is like a whole other world.

And then now it's, I mean, creatine is incredible.

It's incredible for your brain.

I know.

I've heard you say that.

Like I can't tell that.

Because I also take zins all the time.

So it's like, I don't know what's doing it.

Yeah, me too.

I didn't say good.

But yeah, where was I in the Chris thing?

You were talking about gaining weight.

Oh, yeah.

So then I worked with 38.

And I worked with the guy who, so I was doing that in conjunction with learning about sniping

and working with Kevin Lace's guide, Dober.

We would go up to the Disney Ranch and work with like 600 yard head targets prone

that I would just do all the time.

And then once we cast the rest of the team, we did all this stuff.

But really, Kevin Lace, this guy, Dober was the guy because he was there.

And he was there through the whole shooting just so everything would be real.

And we just drilled it.

We became a group.

Like, you know, we did the work.

But it wasn't so much about like, I was like, I have this amount of time.

Doing like seal boot camp will do nothing for me.

Like, that'll just give me the brain of like, how hard this is and will I be broken.

I've done this not that I couldn't have, maybe I would have been broken.

But I felt like, I do understand that.

Like, I've been through certain things where like, I understand what it's like to push myself to be on my breaking point

and what that looks like and feels like.

What I don't know is when I'm looking at a target and I have to factor in the, you know, the curve of the earth.

You know, like that's the stuff I want to learn.

Yeah.

So that's where I focused with those three weapons, you know, live rounds, gaining the weight.

So I felt like I was.

Here we go. We're back.

That's like all of a sudden you're like, oh, you didn't take the drug.

You know, you know, I'm not on it.

And then, and then so was those two things in conjunction.

The curve of the earth is nuts.

Yeah, I think about that.

It's crazy.

Long distance.

And then the fact that these guys stayed up 24 hours with pee in there, you know, never get up to pee.

Just pee right there, right in the room.

You know, I mean, I said no.

And then by the way, it's a human being.

I mean, it's just, yeah, forget it.

And then just working with this guy, Tim Monoc on like his voice.

To me, it's all the voice is everything.

It's all about the voice and like where he's from.

And Chris was interesting because his accent started to change, you know,

because he once he got out and then he did that.

He did a couple of shows.

You know, he wrote that book, which is how I came across and then gave it a clint.

So he had an interesting accent that kind of changed a little bit.

But yeah, just the voice.

Just hitting the voice.

I worked this guy five days a week, you know, you know, and I had tons of stuff.

I had so much information that Tae and Kyle had been so generous to give me.

So many home videos, you know, correspondence.

You know, I used to work out to his, which I just did the other day.

It's so funny we're talking about this.

I literally just did it two days ago.

Worked out to his playlist.

I had both of his workout playlists.

Oh, wow.

And I blew up two huge posters.

And one was him just like this.

And one was his gun.

And I would do that and look at him every morning.

It was just like this beautiful ritual that I felt like I was with him every day.

How long did you take to prepare?

I'd have to look back.

I think I did it fast, but I think we had about six months or five months.

But like, you know, full on, that's it.

Nothing else.

I didn't have a kid back then.

It was like, that was it.

Yeah.

That's, there's something very unique about someone doing a film about an actual person.

Yeah.

Like a great actor doing like De Niro when he played Jake Lamata, Raging Bull.

Of course.

Like that.

That was one of the first one.

I mean, he became a different person.

Yeah.

Yeah, you have to.

Yeah.

You have to, there's like emerging of you and that whatever that idea, the soul, whatever of the person.

It sounds so hokey.

You know, I get it.

But if you ask me what my memory is of, of making a sniper, like memory like on in scenes,

it's not that like I was acting.

It's just, that's not my memory.

What is the memory?

Of like, okay, now we're going to do this and it's like me as him doing it.

Wow.

You know, that's, that's.

Was that a mind-fuck when you stop when like the movie wraps?

Well, the good thing is you do a Clint who takes the piss out of fucking everything.

Oh, yeah, so we would go to dinner at night.

And, and I learned from Christian Bale in American Hustle, like he just stayed in, because I didn't understand this,

staying the character all the time.

You know, you hear these stories, but you don't know what the real is.

Like, how does that work?

You see a cell phone?

Do you like lose your mind?

Like, how do you, what is it?

What, how do you do it?

And Bale.

It's like, oh, I overthought it.

Bale just, he was, played this character.

There's from New York in, in American Hustle.

And I go in there.

The first day I met him, he was his accent.

And the rest of the movie, even like on weekends, it was, it was him, Christian.

And I could, we would talk about stuff in his kid, but he would just speak in that voice.

And I was like, oh, it's that simple.

Like, it's not some big thing.

Like, once you get the voice, that is weird.

You know, but I took it.

I mean, and it's wonderful.

Because then you feel like you're not acting and you're in the voice.

And I do it all.

Like, so, so I would be in that voice of Chris for the whole movie.

And then we would go to like a restaurant when we were like up in Lancaster shooting or something.

And Clint would then make fun of me in my accent as Chris and order a steak.

And it was just, it was great.

He's fucking sabotaging your performance.

He's making himself conscious.

That's crazy.

It was awesome.

That's crazy.

I always wondered what it's like to be around someone is like method.

But I don't know that's, I wouldn't, you know, method is also a term that, you know.

What does it mean?

Well, the method, well, what how it started in Russia, right?

And then, you know, that book on acting that I should know, you know, what's his name?

He came and then the group theater started and it was like, you know,

and all these people then disband and there's Harry Meisner and there's, yes, Stanislavsky, exactly.

And there was another guy, Vok Tangoff, that I'll also talked about that every rehearsal.

It's very interesting.

And I read all this in grad school.

And then the group theater came in and then Ilya Kazan was a huge part of it becoming popular

because you had this guy that was sweeping floors of the actor studio and then started directing plays.

And then all of a sudden, he's a huge movie director.

And he's putting Marlon Brando, who's part of the actor studio, starring in his movies, you know,

and he's doing it.

And so it all just sort of erupted.

But then it branched out.

And so there's people that are dogmatic about it, about it's only using your, you know, your substituting.

So if I'm doing a scene with you, like, you aren't, you're my brother, you know.

Right.

But it's evolved into, it's like, what works for you?

To me, it's like, you use your own experience plus your imagination.

You know, but that's the sort, that's the, you know, sort of a very layman's 50 second,

you know, telling of what the origin of the method is.

But I went to the actor studio, which is based in the method.

That's where I went to grad school.

Is it?

And it's very valuable because I didn't know shit before that.

I mean, I did a couple of plays at Georgetown.

I didn't know any, I mean, I just loved acting, but I didn't do anything about it.

I was terrified as a kid.

Like, we did this thing in high school where we did, as seniors, we would put on our show,

where we would make fun of our teachers.

And I like, I could do my Latin teacher, Mr. Burke.

I was like, and I actually sang in it, we sang it.

And I was like, but I was terrified, Joe, for the whole year.

It's sleepless nights for a year leading up to it.

That's how scared I was in public.

I remember doing like a fifth grade presentation with the poster boards about lock-and-hops

and the poster shaking so hard because I was, because I was so nervous.

I was like, how am I going to, what's this fear thing?

Isn't that weird?

I know, but then in college, I did a couple of plays, but I still didn't know what I was doing,

but I loved it.

And I was like, little stuff.

I was like, as long as the server in dangerous liaisons.

But I still remember like, I closed the door in a rhythmic way and people laughed.

And I remember I was like, ooh, although this feels good.

And then, so I applied to grad school there.

And then all of a sudden, there was like, I got a huge foundation of like, what I could do.

So that your insecurities are actually your attributes, your fears or stuff that, you know,

all this thing that you're a sensitive kid, this is all good stuff.

And I never felt that way before about any of that.

And I had this teacher, Elizabeth Camp, who was incredible, who then passed away in my house years later.

She got sick.

Yes, crazy.

Pass away in your house?

Yeah, in Venice, California.

She was sick, so we put her hospice there, but she was incredible.

And she did this basic technique class.

She was the first time ever, because I didn't grow up therapy, and none of that was even, you know,

in the vicinity of talking about your feelings, you know, I love my dad.

But I grew up in, you know, the 80s in Northeast Philadelphia with an Irish Italian upbringing.

That wasn't part of the deal.

And then all of a sudden, in grad school with other guys and women were like laying down.

And she wants us to go through an experience of loss in betrayal when we were children.

It's like, what the fuck?

And actually, I could take all that stuff I've been ashamed of and I could use it and bring it into art.

I don't know, really clicked with me in a huge way.

So, and I use it even to this day.

All the movies I do, I always get the actors together and do like a workshop for a week that's based on dreams that she also taught me.

And I just find it invaluable.

Any way you can just, how can I just get to a place where we're just talking to each other?

And I don't, you know, and then all this stuff, I feel it's okay.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, you're doing a guy like Chris.

It must also be kind of easier to keep the accent than to try to reestablish it right before we see it.

You just said it.

It's a logical thing.

Yeah.

That's it.

It's a logical thing.

The idea of me talking with an accent or even thinking that it's an accent.

Because you don't think about it anymore.

The whole point is I'm not doing an act.

If I'm doing a scene with you and I'm thinking about how I'm talking, it's over.

It's a wrap.

Right.

It's not real.

Right.

And it happens to be the voice that I've been working on for a however long time.

Then we're in it.

We got a shot.

Yeah.

And if I'm stopping it, there's no way I'm not thinking about it.

So yes, Joe, that is the reason.

You know what's a really underappreciated talent is voice actors who do audiobooks?

I was watching a video of this guy because I never knew how they did it.

And I kind of assumed that whenever they had a change accents, they probably had a pause.

But there's like, there's a video of a guy doing the voiceover for Lord of the Rings.

The Lord of the Rings audiobook.

And he goes into smegel.

He goes into the golem character while he's doing narration.

There's no break.

He just smoothly transitions into smegel.

It's fucking incredible.

No, it's nuts.

It is absolutely masterful and completely underappreciated.

Yeah, I agree with you.

Because if you watch this guy do it, I don't know the gentleman's name.

Who's the voiceover actor.

But I love audiobooks.

This, that guy.

Listen to this guy.

Oh, it's Andy Circus.

Yeah.

It's holding a debate with some other thought that used the same voice but made it squeak

and hiss.

A pale light and a green light alternated in his eyes as he spoke.

It's me, your premise.

Set the first thought.

Yes.

Yes, my precious.

Kane the answer.

Amazing.

Fucking amazing.

Like that.

What a master.

And you're talking about a master actor.

Yes.

Yeah, you know, because he's been in a lot of movies.

He's directed.

He's directed to that great movie that was like a jungle book, a version of jungle book.

The Christian Bale actually played the Panther I believe.

He's incredible.

And I got to meet him.

He's like, this guy's like a one-off generational talent.

Yeah, he's insane.

He have to be.

Yeah, yeah.

To be that good voiceover actor.

Yeah, and he's just a great actor.

Yeah, you have to be.

Yeah, I agree.

And my mother watches this.

She'll kill me that I'm saying.

My mother watches.

First of all, she loves Turkish soap opera.

She watches everything.

She's Turkish soap opera.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why them specifically?

I don't know.

She just graduated from hallmark into Turkish soap opera.

And then she's evolved even further.

She just watches a screen where there's two people, AI images.

And it's just a person telling a story.

And I often, I'll come down making breakfast because when she stays with me in New York, she has the room down there.

And I'll be making my daughter breakfast and I could hear it, or I'll go to the bathroom, which is right next to her.

And I was like, "Wow, these guys, these boys..."

I mean, the guy's carrying it on.

It's just an image.

And she'll watch it for hours.

And I'm like, "What's going to happen?

Is he going to make that...

Is the firm going to hire him?

Is she going to...

Did she see the note?

Like, he's...

It's a maid.

I was like, "Yeah, it's really an art form.

"Turkish."

Yeah.

I remember the first time I came down.

I was like, "Oh, no, what happened?"

Because I'm just hearing it.

I'm like, "What happened?"

And I walk in and I'm like, "Mom, what are you watching?"

He's like, "Oh, no, this guy's the best actor in the world.

This guy."

And so she just reads the subtitles.

And she did it for like...

She's watched, it's called...

Ugh.

Ugh.

Ugh.

If you look up...

Oh, he's like...

What's it called?

Circle.

Ugh.

Is it dove bird?

Bird something?

How could I forget it?

Oh, baby.

Is that it?

Early bird.

Early bird?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Explain this?

So it's a soap opera.

There's like 360 episodes.

She's watched them all like five, four times.

And she'll come in.

She'll like do a marathon session, come in to make some food.

She's like...

That's the guy.

She's the way he moves.

This guy's the best actor.

That's him.

That's him.

Yeah.

That's him.

That's him.

Is it speaking?

Yeah.

That's him.

Is it speaking in Turkish?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, here's what it is.

Oh, here's what it is.

This looks like...

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, there he is.

And he...

Yeah, there he is.

And she likes this.

And she does the voice-o.

She reads the...

No, so that was the middle stage.

Now she's graduated to...

It's different now where she just watches two AI images

and it's a story.

But she did this for a good like eight years.

But why was she...

All through COVID.

Why was she into this?

I don't know.

She must have come across it one day on somewhere

and then that was it.

She's got hooked.

Oh, I mean, hooked isn't even the word.

Yeah.

By the way, it's pretty good.

Yeah, yeah.

You watch it?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's great.

And the woman in it, it's great too.

Yeah.

Do you consume a lot of films?

Do you watch a lot of acting?

I watch a lot of everything.

Yeah.

I watch a lot of television films.

And then, you know, like eight months ago,

I know I'm late to the game.

Came across podcasts.

Only eight months ago.

Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, yeah.

That's interesting.

Isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What made you get into that?

I can't remember, but it was your podcast.

And I'm trying to think what it was.

And then it was like, oh, and then I came...

And then, you know, once you watch something on your phone,

it suggests other things.

And then, you had two guys on that I thought were really interesting.

And then, they do a trigonometry.

Yeah, trigonometry.

And I find that very fascinating.

Other great.

Yeah, great.

And so, that's how I just started.

So now, it's like a huge part of...

Like, I have this whole little thing.

Like, often I'll go to bed and my daughter's listening to your voice.

But I do put on headphones sometimes.

Because I love, like, just at the end of the day, listening...

Listening or watching, I'll put it on the side table.

Yeah, it's...

The podcast is incredible, and it's very soothing.

Very soothing.

That's interesting.

I hardly ever listened to them anymore.

I love TV.

I love it.

Yeah, I take in a lot of content.

Have you watched The Beast and Me on Netflix?

I did.

Oh, dude.

Holy shit, dude.

And that guy...

Kerry Russell's husband, Matthew Reese, dude.

The bad guy.

Yeah.

How fucking good is that guy?

He did a movie with him years ago called "Burn About a Chef."

And we had never met, and there's a scene where my character...

He was trying to get sober, and he went off the wagon.

And he goes into this guy, their old nemesis...

They were nemesis with each other.

His restaurant after hours.

And it was like a pretty dark scene that we never met.

Me and this guy, this actor, right?

Before we shot.

And I come in, and then...

I don't know what was...

I was pretty locked in.

And there's one scene which wasn't really scripted.

And I took, you know, those sous-v-bags.

And I put it over my head to try to...

...kiss his trying to kill himself.

Which, by the way, I was like, "Oh, this could work."

[laughter]

If I don't get help, those things are strong and tight.

And then we had this experience, Joe, where then he was ripping it off me,

trying for me not to kill myself.

And I don't know him that well, but we had...

That's the thing about, like, making art together.

Like, we had that, it'll never...

Every time I see him, I've seen him maybe six times.

Like, certain things or something.

I always feel like we're bonded forever.

Just based on this one experience that we had.

And he's an incredible actor.

And the end of that show, him and the end of that show.

Oh, God.

And Claire Daines is like...

Off the chart.

Did you see that show she did with Jesse Eisenberg?

What's up?

There's another series she did.

Homeland? No, no, no.

It was, like, Fleischmann, something with Fleischmann.

Yeah, Fleischmann, there's this now.

Yeah, she's incredible in that too.

There's a scene where she's basically having a mental breakdown.

And you're watching and you're like, "This can't be acting."

Yeah, it's that show.

Fleischmann's on trouble.

Yeah.

It's on FX.

And never even heard of this.

Yeah.

It's really good.

Yeah, I enjoyed it.

And I enjoyed her at the end.

There's one scene that, like, really rocked me where I just fully...

I mean, that's just like I just saw this movie "Hemnet."

I don't know if you guys saw that or not.

No.

That's what I love about movies.

So Jesse Buckley in this movie,

it's basically playing like the most difficult role ever,

the loss and all that stuff.

And I fully, Joe, I'm watching and sitting there,

fully believing that this person is going through this.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

When you do that, when I believe that you're actually going through it,

I mean, that's it, that's, and like, her performance in that movie is so...

She's so good, dude.

Dude, dude.

Did you jump into Claire Danes or Jesse Buckley now?

Jesse, Jesse.

No.

Well, Claire Danes.

Yeah.

Claire Danes and Jesse Buckley.

Yeah, they're both amazing.

But Claire Danes is so good in "The Beast and Me."

There's moments where her fucking lips are jubbling.

No, I'm not.

No, she's touched.

Her eyes are darting back to the level.

She's touched, she's touched.

Yeah.

No question.

Yeah.

No question.

Yeah.

And then this very crazy...

She was creating fucking Homeland, too.

Yeah.

She never saw Homeland.

Oh, it's great.

It's really good.

She just locks in.

She locks in in this very strange way.

Well, you fucking 100% believe her.

Yeah.

Like, believe it behind the eyes.

That's the greatest.

Yeah.

I mean, that's what, that's the heroin for me from this industry.

It's like, when you're around and you're creating this thing and it's just,

and all of a sudden, it's like, whoa.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, holy shit, it's happening.

But it's like, I had this conversation with Ethan Hawk.

I was, 'cause I was asking him about...

But I felt like that with Will, just real quick.

You know, that vampire scene.

That's, 'cause I was, I was operating it, right?

I, I, I, I don't know how you felt watching it.

This scene when he was on stage, yes.

At the very end.

Yes, yes, yes.

I was like, I fully believed it.

Yes.

And those people, and then when I went to the audience and they're just like...

Right.

'Cause they didn't know what the fuck's going on.

Right. Right.

Like, that was one of those moments I had on this movie where I was like,

"Oh, my man is locked."

Yeah.

The fucking.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah, 100%.

You felt that.

Yeah.

Yes.

Oh, 100%.

Definitely.

I was, I have this conversation with Ethan Hawk about that.

I go, "What is happening when I believe someone?"

Like, I was talking about the scene in that movie with him and Julia Roberts.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

There's, there's a scene with him and Kevin Bacon.

Yeah, when they go to the house.

Yeah.

Also, there's three guys in that scene.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, from Moonlight and he's been tons of stuff.

Green book.

I know him.

Yeah.

Jamie will pull it out.

I can't, I'll fuck his name up.

I pronounce it.

Sorry.

What is it?

Sorry, I want more.

Um.

Oh, wow.

It's a martial law league.

That's it.

Martial law league.

Martial law.

Yes.

I believe it.

I know that's Kevin Bacon.

I know that's Ethan Hawk.

Right.

I believe he's going to shoot him.

Yeah, no question.

I believe it.

Yeah.

I go, 'cause it's almost like a form of hypnosis.

Yes.

And he's like, yes.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, you have to actually be there.

You have to actually be there.

Like, yeah, you're saying the lines you're supposed to say.

But what's happening is, like, you really are there.

You really believe it.

And if you don't believe it, the audience doesn't believe it.

And we've all been there before.

Like, one time I ate an edible.

And I want to go see one of those Marvel movies.

And in the middle, I was really high.

Right.

And while I was watching the middle, I was like, this guy's acting.

You know, it's just like, of course.

It just made, you know, really sensitive and tuned in.

I get angry because I'm like, I want to go on the ride.

I'm like, the best watcher.

Because I want to, I want to let that thing start.

Yes.

I want to go on the ride.

I want to go on the ride.

Yes.

Like, like, him and Denzel in training day.

Yeah.

Like, there's a few scenes where you're like, okay, this is really.

Oh, yeah.

This is in the car.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

This is really happening.

Like, this is real.

Yeah.

And we talk so good in that movie.

Yeah.

He's great.

Yeah, he's great in everything.

But he's sick in that movie.

But he's also, when you talk to him, you realize, okay, this is an actual artist.

Yeah, he's a unique dude.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's not a guy who, like, trying to be a movie star.

No, he's an artist that does movies.

Yeah, but I don't know how many people.

I don't know.

It's like how many comedians who just want to be famous are going to look.

I don't even know how you could do it.

You have to love it.

Right.

It's just too hard.

That's not enough of a fuel.

Yeah.

It's not.

That's not enough fuel.

It won't take you far enough.

It's just not a fuel to keep doing it.

Right.

Because if you don't love it, I think you would find it monotonous and maybe boring and tedious and inconsequential.

You're going on a road trip with an eighth of a tank of gas.

You're not going to make it.

You're not going to make it.

You're stomping on the gas and trying to pull out the parking lot.

But it's not that.

Yeah.

It's a long drive.

I've been in this experience in the 26 years.

I've been in this.

It's like most of the people, if not all, that I've worked with.

They love it.

Yes.

They love it.

They have to.

Otherwise, yeah.

If you want to be great as something, you have to love it.

Yeah.

I can't imagine.

Because it's not even that you want it.

Yes, you want to be great at it.

But you just love doing it.

Right.

That's it.

Right.

And the love is how it becomes great.

And then the fear is when you get famous or people get popular early,

that can be confusing because you start to have like,

I have to maintain a certain, you start getting careful.

Like, I was thinking about when you said like,

what is that thing when it just, it's hypnosis.

The key to that is willing to fail.

That's what I learned as an actor.

It's like, oh yeah, just don't take it too seriously.

Here we go.

We're rolling the camera.

Let's just, here, let's see what happens.

I'm going to go on a limb.

Maybe it won't work.

But like, yeah, be willing to like completely fail.

And then many of you do that.

It's like, oh, and all of a sudden there's this reservoir of space in your head

and your soul to actually create even more of an imaginary circumstances.

Now, if you haven't done your work, you're fucked anyway.

But like, but once you're there, it's like, once you're like,

oh yeah, everybody, we could just fail.

Let's just, let's just fail.

How do you make sense?

It makes sense because the only way you're going to really find out what it is

is to like try it all kinds of ways.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was just having the conversation, you know, Brian Calon, our mutual friend.

He texted me last night.

It's like, I got a new bit.

I just ate a dick.

I have to go up on stage with it tonight.

It's fucking terrible.

He goes, but I know there's something in there.

And we were talking on the phone right before the show.

He's like, dude, at my pocket, a new bitch is bombed.

It's a dick last night.

I don't know what to do.

But I know there's something there.

It's like, you've got to be willing to bomb.

You got to be willing to eat a dick.

If you don't, I don't know how.

Yeah, I don't know any of it.

If you're careful, it's over.

You can't.

Careful is death.

I talked to Chris Rock once and he told me that, that bit that he did,

it was one of his all-time classic blitz bits.

I love black people.

I hate N word.

Right, right.

He goes, that bit bombed for like a year.

Right.

He couldn't get it to work.

He's like, I know there's something in there, but I have to find it.

Yeah.

And it took a fucking year.

I think, we're talking about a year of going up at the store,

going up at the improv, going here, going to the laugh factor,

going here, going there, fuck pulling your hair out, fuck.

Trying to figure it out, a fucking year, man.

And when you're Chris Rock, you're already Chris Rock.

And you, you know, you can talk about getting your dick sucked.

You can talk about something.

People laugh.

And you're like, I think there's something here.

I gotta grind this fucking thing down till I get an edge to it.

And it took him a year.

Yeah.

Like you have to be willing to fuck around.

And to suffer through all that.

Yeah.

And enjoy the suffering.

You start to like, once you do it enough, fail enough in front of people,

it starts to be easier.

Yeah.

And then you come out on the other end, you're like, woo.

Yeah, and I'm so glad I did it.

I'm so glad I did it.

Yeah, I did it.

This wasn't as big as I thought.

No.

And then you have to do it again.

That's, and then you put out a special.

And then once you put out a special, you start from scratch.

And then you're fucking terrified.

Because now you're a famous comedian with no material.

Right.

For a terrible material.

And you have to figure out a way to make it good.

And that plays in what I was talking about.

Like when you have, when you've achieved something,

and then there's that pressure that you put on yourself

that it has to be that good or better.

Right.

And then all of a sudden, you're in a different game.

Then just like the doing.

I think that that play its safe game is the scariest game.

Or, yeah, or, or somehow think that it's,

it's somehow that controllable.

Because really all this stuff we're talking about,

it's really kind of out of our control.

You know, when it's working, I don't feel in control at all.

Right.

You feel like a passenger.

Yeah.

And that's by the way, that's the high.

Uh-huh.

There's nothing fun about controlling everything.

There's nothing fun on that.

But when you're like, whoa, wait a second.

What's happening?

Like the zone is a passenger.

Yeah.

It's like being an observer of something.

Sports too.

I think it works in every field.

Oh, yeah.

They talk about it.

You know, it's like, yeah, that's it.

That's it.

And it just takes a ton of year of doing the thing.

You know, because there are moments that I can even think of where.

Because you do think, that's okay.

It doesn't matter.

There are a couple where like, actually,

if this moment doesn't work out,

like it may not be over,

but you're definitely going to go down along the ladder.

Yeah.

And it's like, okay, and that's that pressure.

You know, yeah.

You got to love it.

How do you pick a project?

Like, how do you decide what you want to do?

And how much time do you spend deliberating on it?

Hmm.

Because you're in a unique position where you can do a lot of things.

Yeah.

You can kind of do whatever you want.

So it's like, what gets your juices going?

Like, how do you decide what to do?

It's all about something igniting in me that, like, for example,

when I was little, I thought, like,

oh, obsessed with Vietnam.

I was obsessed.

As a kid.

Vietnam, the war in Vietnam.

And my math teacher was a, was a recon in Vietnam.

Bill, calm.

And I was like, obsessed with this guy.

And he was fascinating, fascinating.

He was a polevolter.

And that was his cue for the chalkboard.

Was it broken?

One of his broken polevolts sticks.

Oh, wow.

And he would always, and he always wore sweatpants.

And he would lean against the thing.

So all day long, half of his sweatpants would be full of chalk.

And he would always smoke cigarettes on the athletic field

and stand on the bench.

And so he'd always be perched there.

And like my dad, he would never put out his butts.

He would always save them.

So he always smelled like tobacco his hands.

And then this other guy, his father came and talked to him.

His father came and talked about this book, Guns Up,

which is an incredible book about machine gunner in Vietnam.

And then I asked my dad if I could go to the military academy.

Like, I would do something.

And then like, you know, thin red line destroyed me.

The Tarantum Alec movie.

And the apocalypse now, I was like obsessed with.

And all these films.

And so I always wanted to do something about playing.

I always felt like I had a love enough and an interest enough

that playing a soldier would be something that I felt like I had a reservoir.

So that led me to Chris.

That was that.

It's all specific things.

It was just Joseph Merrick, you know, the alpha man.

Like when I was, I had no money and I took it.

I got a one, I'm tower air went to London.

And like what it tracked his, his steps at hospital road and worry went out.

Just because I was obsessed with this guy, Joseph Merrick, the alpha man.

And then I wound up, you know, then making it, you know, doing the play

and Broadway where they originated.

You know, and then stars born was really about.

I just love, I always wanted to direct.

I don't think I dreamt that big.

But I really realized what I loved about the process of the industry.

And then is the making of it.

I never felt like I fit in just acting.

I never felt like I thought like the first, like like you.

Like I went to LA with a job.

Like I went to grad school in New York.

I thought I'd just be a theater actor if I was lucky.

If I could make a living as an actor, this is a home run.

My dad was terrified, you know, because he came from North Philadelphia.

He only got to come out of the neighborhood kind of, there were a couple other guys.

But then he became a stockbroker.

And then his son's going to do acting and be 70 grand in debt in grad school.

You know, Fannie Mae, thank God.

But like, you know, and I didn't know if I was going to pay it off.

But that said, we grew up like upper middle class.

But still, I was like, I'm paying for grad school.

It took a loan out.

And then, so he was terrified.

And then I got a job on this show, Alias, it brought me to LA.

But the minute I got there, I didn't know anything about.

I checked the gate, I didn't know nothing.

You know what I mean? I didn't know nothing.

I just love movies.

And so I was obsessed, Joe, obsessed.

I would go in the editing room.

And I found out, like, very hard when I went there.

I got very depressed.

I was like, this is high school all over again.

Me too, that's exactly what I got.

I was like, what, I mean, I could, I went to grad school.

I'm in New York City.

There's guys that I can relate to and talk about movies.

I was in heaven.

Then I get this job that I think is going to be the Holy Grail.

And I'm miserable.

Living in the first floor of this woman's house.

Just like, it was crazy.

I was like, I didn't know I could be this depressed.

I mean, depressed.

Like, I need water.

And like, the idea of going to the right aid on Sunset

and Fairfax was like too much.

Yeah.

And yeah, that was rough.

It's depressing.

Yeah.

When you first go, especially when you're in that.

Why don't you get a weird environment?

And no one, just no.

And I was on a show that was awesome.

And everybody was exploding and like, no one.

It was like, who's this guy?

So not only that, I'm there.

And everybody's like, you know, I'm just like, you know, a ghost.

Right, right, right.

So there's that.

So your insecurity is just, you know, example.

It's just, you know, astronomical.

It was for me.

It was also one of the first times that I ever moved somewhere

where I didn't know anyone.

Me too.

I knew nobody.

JJ Abrams hired me.

And then Burkey this guy was the only guy that I knew

that he introduced me to.

And then I met Jennifer Garner, who was like the second person I met.

And then yeah, I didn't know anybody.

It's weird.

Yeah.

I remember I was on the set of the show.

Brian Klaugman.

I didn't know that guy.

Who's like one of my best friends.

Great.

You know Brian Klaugman?

No, I know who he is though.

Yeah.

We grew up since we were like nine.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

I was on the set of the show and a girl gave me a hug.

And I realized, no, it had touched me in weeks.

And the hug she gave me, I was like, oh.

It was like my battery got recharged.

I didn't realize I needed a hug.

No people said you need a hug.

Like I never thought like nobody needs a hug.

No, I fucking needed a hug.

I was very similar.

She was like, give me a hug.

She hugged me.

I was like, oh, thank you.

I felt so good.

It's weird.

It's a weird feeling.

It's a hell of a place to go.

It is like, wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I had a hard time.

The whole environment of LA is so strange because you have the primary industry.