"The Joe Rogan Experience"

"Strain my day, Joe Rogan Park has my night all day"

"Disclosure Day, very interesting."

"Yeah, I'm excited for that."

"Yeah, he was always like way ahead of the curve when it comes to the whole UAP UFO stuff."

"You know, with Closing Counts of the Third Kind, he had that French scientist that was essentially modeled after Jacques Palais."

"Yeah."

"He's always been..."

"I would love to talk to him. I wonder how much he knows."

"Is that an accident?"

"Was he fed some information? Was he a part of disclosure the whole time?"

"That's what I've always wondered."

"I mean, what does that mean? Because there hasn't really been disclosure."

"No, but there has to be a slow process, too, right?"

"You think so?"

"Well, I don't think... I mean, the whole idea is that they're just sort of normalizing it, right?"

"Mm-hmm."

"Neural and linguistic programming, they call it where you're slowly getting people accustomed to these ideas."

"Like, the aspects of Closing Counters, for instance, where you have the radiation burns on the guy's face, you have a time travel component where these World War II soldiers get out of the craft with the little beans and the bigger bean."

"I mean, just seeding our culture with those little bits of information that might help later on..."

"That was like in the '70s, wasn't it? Like, when was Closing Counters?"

"Uh, yeah, I think it was in the '70s."

"The late '70s, early '80s, maybe."

"Yeah, either way, I mean, like, a lot of stuff he's done, like, I re-watched the couple with Jeff Bridges, Starman."

"Mm-hmm."

"There's a lot of elements of disclosure in that, too. Like, I think there's just..."

"I don't know. I mean, obviously we don't know who's pulling the strings. We don't know what's going on. We don't know who's in charge."

"But it does make sense that if there's this thing that they know about, that we're supposed to know about, leak it out to it slowly, get it in our culture, get it in our media in different ways."

"You know the how-put-off story, right, with George Bush?"

"Do you know the story where they were talking about..."

"Okay. How talked about it on my podcast, but he also talked about it in the age of disclosure, documentary, where they brought him and him

and a bunch of different prominent thinkers."

"Yeah, watch that episode and a bunch the docus."

"So to people that don't know, I'll just explain it."

"So they brought in him and a bunch of other prominent thinkers and they had..."

"They sat them down and said essentially, we have recovered crashed UFOs. We have biological remains of these creatures."

"We are considering releasing it to the public and we want to make an assessment of what are the pros and what are the cons."

"So we want to assign a numerical value that, you know, you're estimating what kind of an impact it would be on government, finances, religion, etc."

"Well, whether they should do it, basically."

"Right. Whether or not they should release this information and all of the people that were brought in came to the agreement that there was more con than there were pro."

"And that formed their decision to not release it."

"And didn't he say at first, like he was pro-disclosure?" He was like, "Of course we should do this."

"And then after the conversation, he switched teams."

"Yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe."

"Perhaps I thought he said that he went into it thinking, "Well, yeah, obviously we should do this."

"And then sort of was convinced otherwise after the conversation unfolded."

"Yeah, how could you be convinced?"

"Like, whose decision should it be?"

"If some people know, everyone should know."

"It's a humanity decision. I don't think it should be in anybody's hands to decide whether or not this information gets distributed."

"And the implications, too, if they have zero-point energy, the kind of that solve the problems that we face today."

"There's so many ramifications of it that, yeah, whose decision is it and why has it been kept from us?"

"I don't buy that whole like Orson Wells 1938, everybody freak out, bullshit. I don't think that's the case, at least not anymore."

"There's gotta be something more to it than that."

"It would certainly have, I don't know if they factor the sin, but a uniting element."

"Like, you remember the Reagan speech we gave in front of the United Nations?"

"We said, "Imagine how united we would be would forget our differences if we were faced with an alien threat from another world."

"I mean, just knowing that we are all un-- I mean, how old are you?"

"47."

"Okay, so you remember September 11th? One of the things that happened after September 11th was it was a horrible tragedy, but there was a beautiful result temporarily where everybody was really united.

Like, really united. Like, there was American flags and everybody's car in Los Angeles.

You know, like, the most ridiculous, progressive sort of kind of, you know, kind of fucked up place.

But everybody became patriotic. And in New York, everyone was friendly. I mean, people were smiling and saying, "Hi to each other on the streets."

We had all decided that we were together and that we were faced with a real threat and that we had to be united.

And I remember it well, yeah.

You're right. And not to get too weird too fast here, but if there are aspects of sort of an all-encompassing consciousness that unites us associated with UFO phenomenon too,

if we recognize that we are just fingerprints on the same hand or all iterations of the same over arching consciousness,

if seemingly there is a part of that in the UFO phenomenon.

Yeah.

So, how would that unite us as well, even beyond the threat from outside?

Like, if we did start to understand that we're all part of the same sort of cosmic community?

Sounds kind of weird to say that.

It does sound weird, but have you seen the Apple shell Pluribus?

No, it comes up a lot. It's worth watching.

It's really good.

Yeah. It's really good. It's very, very original, very unique.

But that is essentially what happens and it has a negative aspect to it.

There's a virus.

I don't want to give away too much of it for people that want to watch the show because it's a really good show.

But there's a virus that they get a signal from another world and they figure out what this signal is.

And through this lab work, they reveal that this signal is some sort of the encoding of a specific virus.

They work on this specific virus, it spreads, and the entire planet becomes one consciousness,

except for a small number of people.

Interesting.

It's a weird show. It's a really good show.

I'm going to explain it any more of it like that without any spoiler alerts, but it's fucking great.

But it's strange. It's like, wouldn't that be better? There's no crime. There's no this.

But then it reveals all the problems that come along with that.

I'm going to have to watch that as a counterpoint if anything else because it makes sense to me

that everyone's kind of united as one super organism of sorts.

But you lose all individuality.

You lose all the fun parts about being an imperfect person.

Because we are an imperfect species, but that's also what makes great art. That's what makes great music.

That's what makes great fun.

Most creative people have the most trauma in their past from what I've seen.

And if you have zero trauma, you probably have sucky art.

Just stick figures and shit.

I mean, I wonder why would be, if they would even have a need for it.

It's because it's expression. It's getting your anger out.

Or your angst or your anxiety or depression, whatever it is.

You're getting something out.

I was telling my son that the other day, obviously, his name.

It's hard being in these bodies, especially going through puberty.

You're just like, what is this thing I'm carrying? This little meat suit.

And I was like, man, I was the same way. I still am the same way.

And I picked up instruments. I started painting. I'd learn to play every sport.

I could physically play. There's ways to get that out, you know.

But it seems like a lot of that does come from just the anxiety and the angst.

Sure. And you know, you're growing into yourself.

You're starting to get the feels. You know, you look at women differently.

What do I do with this?

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They have this weird characteristic where they start out as females.

Everybody does.

We all start out as females and you grow.

And then male-ness is imposed on the developing fetus.

But they don't until puberty because they're not sensitive to dihydrotestosterone, the precursor to testosterone.

So they grow up their entire life as girls and then at puberty they turn into a boy.

So they get raised as girls?

They are girls.

They're physically girls.

But they have girls.

Not yet.

Nope.

What?

This is a planet?

I mean, this is an island.

It's an island in the South Pacific.

It's called pseudohermaphroditism.

What?

I know I learned about this in grad school.

So what do they look like?

They look like girls.

What?

Exactly like girls.

They are girls.

And then the ovaries descend as testicles and the clitoris grows out into opines.

Wow.

So you think puberty is starting off already.

These people turn into the opposite sex at age like 12 or 13.

It's wild, man.

So is this a bizarre genetic anomaly?

Is this something to do with that?

Yes.

A lot of times on islands you get like really strange characteristics of people because of the isolation.

And those characteristics get selected just through genetic drift alone.

So it's a small population.

So just probably one person had this really weird trait where they're insensitive to dihydrotestosterone

and then it spread throughout more of the population.

Wow.

It doesn't do anything.

It's not something natural selection would select against.

It's weird to shit.

What is the name of this island?

I don't remember the name of the island.

But the condition's called...

Find it?

I think it's Molo Island and Vanadoor.

Oh yeah, Vanadoor.

How many people were on that island?

This says there's a population in 1979 of 2300 people.

Yeah.

And think historically.

There's two different kinds of people there.

There's two different kinds of people.

There's two different kinds of people.

Two cultural groups.

Isn't that wild, dude, man?

I remember hearing about that in grad school.

I was state.

And I was just like, I'm sorry.

What?

It's so strange.

I'm sure you've seen those people, the ostrich feet people in Africa.

It's a very strange genetic anomaly where they don't grow toes.

They essentially have two very wide appendages.

Weird.

Yeah.

It looks like a weird bird foot.

It's very strange.

But a bunch of people in this particular tribe share this trait.

Is there any advantage?

It's just...

It's like this where it just kind of happened.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know what advantage there would be.

Maybe it's...

Maybe it's really...

Maybe you're sexy to them.

It's just like...

Maybe you could move better with it.

I don't know.

That's what they look like.

Whoa!

Yeah.

I don't know how I haven't seen that.

That's wild.

Oh, no.

Isn't that crazy?

I mean, it is kind of sexy.

If that's what you're into, dog.

I wonder how long this thing going on for.

Vodoma.

See, that seems like more of...

Like a defect that just worked toward fixity in the population.

Maybe not.

It just makes you wonder.

Like, why don't we...

It's in Zimbabwe, apparently.

Why don't we all have that?

You know, like, what is...

What is the reason why we have all these toes that...

It's called electro-dactyl.

Yeah.

Electro-dactyl.

I mean, historically, pre-astorically, evolutionarily, I should say.

If you did have something like that and you were hunter-gatherer,

you're kind of boned.

You know, you're not going to be able to run after gazelles.

I don't know.

Maybe you can.

Because their feet are well adapted to the Zimbabwe.

Oh.

Zimbazi.

Not Zimbabwe.

Zimbazi, valleys, rough terrain, allowing them to move quickly

and efficiently through the landscape.

All right.

I take it back.

What kind of makes sense, right?

Because what it's saying is that their bones are fused.

If you scroll up, it'll say,

the condition affecting Austrian-footed tribe

and genetic mutation passed down through generations

caused the bones in the feet to fuse,

resulting in a claw-like structure with two large toes.

Toes are very vulnerable.

I don't know if you ever were broken a tub.

It's a broken an hour before I got on the plane to come here.

Really?

If you could see my left foot.

Oh, that's hilarious.

That's ridiculous.

The whole thing is just purple.

Yeah.

They're so small.

Like, my pinky toe.

I was messing around with my pinky toe the other day.

Because I have to trim my toenails, right?

And the pinky toe is like barely a nail.

It's so tiny.

And I'm like, this little thing is so vulnerable

and it has to support my entire body weight

or part of my entire body weight.

Yeah, they're so dumb.

Oh, yeah.

You can see that.

This one's jacked.

Yeah.

That was like right before I was coming down.

I'm like, "You're cheating me."

That sucks.

Yeah.

I've broken a bunch of toes.

It's very, very annoying.

It's so annoying.

And you would imagine if you had two giant fucking elbow bones

down there instead of these bitchy ass little toesies.

Oh, maybe that's why they did it.

Maybe that's what they got going on.

Kind of makes sense that that would be an adaptation.

Invincible feet.

Yeah.

Well, you know, we're so vulnerable.

And that's one of the weirder things.

So first we should get into what you do.

Because you have a very interesting theory.

Tell everybody what your background is, first of all.

Yeah, all right.

That does seem like a good place to start.

My background is in anthropology and biological anthropology.

My research mostly focuses on evolutionary anatomy,

biomedicine, of Densomarkiology.

Various places around the world in Montana.

But the reason I'm here, I assume.

Because according to my friend Matt,

we were butchering on a mule deer, I think.

I shot.

And I was like, "Yeah, I got to go to this conference."

And I was like, "Do you want to know what it's about?"

He's like, "Nobody gives a shit about what you do other than you oppose me."

I was like, "Damn it, he's right."

Like I did actually used to do a lot of what I thought was cool stuff.

But no, the main thing is that I've become known for advocating for this idea

that UFOs and the aliens are actually are time traveling,

future human descendants.

I wouldn't even say as opposed to extraterrestrials.

Because I do think that's a component too.

I oftentimes get pigeonholed.

People are like, "Oh, you just think they're all time travelers."

I don't, I actually say this all the time, but it doesn't matter.

I do think there's a lot going on.

But my background, and the reason I approach this question this way,

is because there's a lot of characteristics of these aliens that look so hominin.

They look just like us.

And specifically what we'd expect to see in our hominin future

if the same evolutionary trends continue into the future.

So I kind of just tie those things together.

And even the saucer-shaped craft seemingly are time machines themselves.

So it's kind of the cliff notes version.

Well, it's a theory that a lot of people have independently sort of come to, right?

Yeah, especially recently.

And the concept of, well, just if you just think about ancient man,

I was watching this documentary on Neanderthal's last night about this one intact Neanderthal skeleton

that they found that was, it had sort of been, he had died in a cave,

and you know, there's stalactites, stalactites were mites.

How do you say it?

Tites are up mites are down.

So he was essentially mineralized.

There was stuff all over the body, and it took a long time for them to break this body.

I think I saw that, was that on Netflix?

No, I was watching on YouTube, maybe originally on Netflix.

But it was just documenting how strange this body was

that they had found, but it was immensely strong, like much stronger than us.

One of the interesting things was that their visual cortex,

the part of the brain that would process imagery, was larger than ours.

10 to 20% larger.

Yeah.

And so these things probably had better eyesight than us.

Perhaps even we're able to see at night, and that this was a bigger, stronger version of a human being.

Like much more durable than what we are, modern 2025, homosapiens.

If you just look, yeah, that's it.

So that's one of them.

Yeah, this is cool.

Either human or an end at all.

Oh, really?

This is a published one.

This might not be the same one.

This is maybe a different one.

That's a weird one, because what's that fucking thing on its head?

That's what it says, it's a stalactite growing out of it.

Wow.

In a weird form.

Weird.

Yeah, it's like a unicorn.

It's like a crest.

They do have a sagittal ridge.

Yes.

Um, homo erectus had one.

Well, there's an offshoot in our hominin lineage called the Peranthropus,

or Robust Australopithecus.

And they had a full-on, like, guerrilla style, sagittal ridge.

Yes, they were vegetarians, they just chewed all day.

Right, so they had massive muscles to chew.

Yeah, their whole face is huge.

Wow.

Neanderthals kind of, I mean, they were just big.

Just a robusticity thing, but there is evidence from Shenadar Cave in Iraq,

where they were using their teeth as tools.

We think they were, like, tanning hides.

They were holding the hide in their mouth, and then, like, scraping all the nasty bits off.

Oh.

And you can see that in the toothware.

So, yeah, they were, they were pretty bad-ass.

They were the first, I don't know, I think this is cool, but a lot of people think I'm a nerd too.

Um, they were the first to use the flake.

Like, for 2.8 million years, we just hit a piece of rock, and like, oh, this is a cool tool.

But then, they figured out that if you hit the rock in just the right way,

the piece that falls off makes an even better tool.

It took us, like, 2.5--

Yes.

Exactly.

And from that point on, like, I got to work at a place called Shapino Jean-Zac in Southern France

for a summer, and it was in Neanderthals site.

And we found these-- actually, it's pretty funny, because when we first got there,

they said, these tools called MTA Handaxes, Mustierian of Australian Tradition Handaxes.

And they were only 8 found in all of Europe.

And they said, "If you guys find one of these, we'll buy you all of the beer

and all the cognac you can drink, so we're in the cognac region of France."

And we found one, like, the 4th or 5th day.

We went on to find 7 more over the course of that week.

We doubled the number of these things in existence in all of Europe.

And they were not lying.

They bought us so many damn beers.

The gargiala just liked to drink.

We dig, and it's boring as hell.

It's not Indiana Jones.

We're not running around banging hot chicks and flying on planes.

We're like, we've got a spoon, and we're doing this for 8 hours.

So, yeah, I actually found the last one on the last day,

and it was by far the worst one.

Like, I had to argue that this should even count as one of these.

But, yeah, it was a cool sight.

So, yeah, they were doing well, but we were doing better.

And it was something happened where we replaced them.

Yeah.

This is an ad for BetterHelp.

The holidays come with a lot of traditions,

gathering with family, cooking those once a year recipes,

and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together.

The point is, as time goes on, humans today are probably the most feeble version

of humans that have ever existed.

And we're with the most feeble versions of people that have existed within the last century.

If you go back to humans from the 1920s versus humans from the 2020s,

people have way less testosterone now, way or higher instances of miscarriages,

way lower sperm count.

There's a lot of factors that are at play right now that are changing what a human is.

And if you extrapolate, if you look at the future,

you would naturally say, well, we're probably going to be very thin.

It seems like there's at least some sort of a push to eliminate gender.

Like, gender seems like it's on the table as whether or not it's even necessary.

There's all sorts of new technological innovations that are leading to

the possibility, at least sometime in the future, of an artificial womb.

There's genetic engineering with CRISPR and a lot of other different technologies

that are being explored that we might be able to engineer human beings

and then even create a complete individual human being without a mother, without a father.

So, if you thought about what that looks like in the future,

look, one of our problems in this planet is we all have different ideologies,

different religions come from different parts of the world.

We look different and human beings as tribal primates have a tendency to other.

We other different tribes.

Those are not us.

We are us.

Those are the enemy.

You're out of your own debt.

But if everybody is exactly the same and we share one mind,

you know, then a lot of our problems go away.

If we no longer have to compete for resources, we no longer have the desire to

procreate and to acquire land and to be, you know, to have a territory,

we eliminate a lot of our issues.

And that's what these things look like.

When you look at the archetypal, these iconic sort of shapes that have been

on cave walls all the way up to close encounters with the third kind,

one thing they share is that they have no muscle.

They have large heads.

They have big eyes.

And they--

Child-like.

They're really pedomorphic, as we say.

Yeah, you just tied together a lot of really important points related to this theory,

aspects of why they're always interested in our gametes.

Why they come back and put that little machine on a man to collect semen,

why they're constantly taking eggs from females and planting fetuses,

pulling them back out later.

Like they're clearly focused on reproduction, gametextraction.

And one of the things that might be fueling that in the future,

if these are future humans, let's just assume for a second hypothetically,

is that they might be having problems directly resulting from these trends

towards self-domestication, these trends toward feminization,

these trends toward reduced sperm counts, which is 60% across most populations

of the world and the industrialized world, 50% across the entire world.

Yeah, problems with reproduction and vitro fertilization,

exogenesis chambers might help solve some of those problems,

growing the fetus outside of the body.

So yeah, and like you said, what do they look like?

They look like kind of a hybrid between males and females to some extent.

But there's still an essence of gender.

Like if you talked to Willie Strieber, you know, he's with this bean,

he says in communion that I had a sense that she was a woman.

I don't know why.

I'm going to kind of sense that.

So it's almost like the essence of the individual,

the soul of the individual still retains that sort of gender identity,

even though our bodies are becoming more childlike, more gender indiscriminate.

I don't know.

But yeah, yet another one of those ways in which we might sort of grow together

as a species.

Now when you say they are extracting sperm,

like how many of these stories do you take seriously?

There's a lot of these stories.

It's a great question, yeah.

You know, there's unfortunately for any sort of spectacular,

public thing that's in the zeitgeist, like alien abduction.

Whether it's Willie Strieber from communion or the John Macbooks,

the guy from Harvard that wrote, what was that abduction?

Passport to the Cosmos abduction, yeah.

Two great books.

Great books.

But these are all books about encounters.

Close encounters of the third time was some sort of a being from another place.

Whatever it is, it's just not a human being.

And it seems to be technologically superior to us.

And it seems to be one thing they all seem to share

as they seem to be able to communicate telekinetically or telepathically.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I mean, they aren't human, but they are very human too.

So for instance, like, that's one of the main reasons I started exploring this.

I was actually kind of put into this when I was eight or nine years old,

sort of activated in a way and put on this path by a weird thing that happened to me when I was a kid.

What happened to you?

Well, so I talk about it in my first two books.

Identified flying objects and the extra tempestro model,

where I learned about a close encounter that my dad had.

He was a veterinarian in Northeast Ohio where I grew up.

And he was out one night on a coal with another guy.

So there's two people as far as jail and ionics reliability skill.

I have more reliability because there's multiple witnesses.

It's also strange on his scale because they crested the hill.

There's a bright light.

This is an Amish country.

There's no lights in Amish country.

And all of a sudden this bright light darts toward him.

Hover's just above their truck.

Darts back to where it was and straight up into space.

Like an incredible speed.

So this happened before.

It's born, but I overheard him telling the story to some friends one night.

He got Whitley Streiber's book communion as most people did in the 1980s.

And as they should because it's a great book.

And I walked into the living room.

The book is sitting on the shelf facing out.

And I remember like it was yesterday.

I sort of stopped and there was like this light, like a white light.

And then I saw this image in my mind of like an early hominin chimpanzee-like creature.

A modern human and then that archetypal gray alien from the cover with this information.

What if they're related?

What if they are us from the future?

And obviously, I mean, that's why I became a biological anthropologist.

People are always like, so--

So you saw this?

Yeah.

It was like a flash, like a light.

And you know, it's weird looking back on it because I know a lot more about these experiences.

I've talked to people that have had these types of experiences.

What was the setting?

It was our living room.

So it was like you come in the front door and just to the left there's this living room.

Building bookshelf with these books right there.

I just turned the corner, saw it, and then like just kind of--

They just came.

Like I didn't know shit about evolutionary biology.

When you say you saw it, it just saw it in my mind.

Just this white light.

Just an image.

And there was that image of the three faces.

And then the question, could they be us from the future?

And a lot of people are like, how did you get into UFOs?

Like you're a biological anthropologist.

It's the opposite.

I got into biological anthropology to research this question of what they could be us from the future.

Huh.

So you felt like at that moment it wasn't just like a weird thought or a dream.

It felt like a message.

Like what did it feel like?

Yeah.

It was a tasking.

I think Rupert Sheldrick said that people don't have ideas.

Ideas of people.

I think that was like the, hey, go do this thing.

And I did.

That's why we're here now.

Talking about it.

And obviously, you know, we got to be careful about like selection bias and confirmation bias.

Like I didn't go into this.

I didn't go into grad school.

I also didn't tell anybody in grad school I was there because they would have kicked me out.

But I went into it with an open mind.

But I was there to study these things because of that event when I was eight years old.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's, it is a problem.

The confirmation bias.

It is a problem with wanting it to be real.

And I struggle with that because I desperately want it to be real.

And so every time I talk to someone, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people that are, you know,

air quote whistleblowers.

And some of them, I think, for sure have been sent in here to distribute this information.

Yeah.

No doubt.

For sure.

Because it's a great place to do it.

Yeah.

I'll listen to you.

Yeah.

I'll entertain almost anything.

Which is great.

We need that.

Yeah.

But yeah.

I mean, obviously, there's people that are going to take advantage of it.

But I think it's also important for me to say, I'm not convinced.

I, you know, I don't know how much of this is horseshit.

But it's not zero.

No.

The question is, how do I differentiate among these different cases?

I do draw from Heinex in his book, The UFO Experience.

He lists out how we all should approach this based on the reliability scale and the strangeness scale.

Jacques Vallele also drew from that optimum development.

It's part of the Invisible College and all of his work.

But regardless of like my own personal discernment.

It's my second book, The Extra Tumpestro Model, is about 30 case studies, 15 main case studies,

but then I pull in other ones.

And it explores the different theories.

Obviously, the main one being this Extra Tumpestro idea, this future.

Which, by the way, I saw the word of the day, today was anachronistic.

And I was like, man, that would have been a way better word than Extra Tumpestro,

which everybody struggles with.

I could have called them anachronauts.

Oh.

Doesn't that sound cool?

It does sound cool.

I know. What the hell is I thinking, man?

Anyway.

But so one of the most commonly reported things across all cases, regardless of what you think it's bullshit,

or you think this definitely happened, is they really want our sperm.

They really need or want our reproductive material or gametes.

And it's funny, because when I wrote my first book in 2012, published it in 2019,

right at the end, I did an interview, and someone's like, have you heard of Jim Peniston?

I'm like, no.

Which is kind of a failing on my BF.

I'll admit that one.

It turns out, so it was the Rendlesham Forest incident.

He touched this craft.

He got this binary code.

And when deciphering the binary code, they legitimately specifically said, "We are you from the future."

We're having problems with reproduction.

He underwent hypnotic regression.

We're having problems with reproduction, and we need this genetic material to help ourselves.

And a lot of people were like, well, why are they coming back and doing stuff to us?

I think they're coming back and getting stuff from us, because of problems they're having,

largely related to what you were talking about earlier with the reduced sperm counts,

the problem with female infertility.

What if we do try to create the perfect human specimen?

Or we try to cure these genetic diseases through genetic manipulation, CRISPR,

and we screw something up.

We might have to come back, but we can't go to another planet.

There aren't people on these planets.

We can't go and sample gametes from these other places.

We might have to go into our past to get those wild-type unmanipulated gametes in order to fix these problems.

That's a crazy level of technological sophistication, the ability to venture back in time,

and somehow another not-fuck-up-the-timeline that's leading to...

I mean, this is the problem that's always been theorized about time travel.

Anything that you do, if you went back in time, any interactions,

you would completely change how the future would play out.

In the many worlds interpretations.

So that idea is unfortunately very pervasive and mostly because of back to the future,

which I think grew into the brains of most people.

Certainly in my generation.

But what most visit physicists don't agree on many things.

But most agree that we live in what's called a block universe, landscape time, block time,

where if you imagine all moments from the very beginning of the Big Bang to the end of the universe

where all matter disappears into like a black hole or contracts or whatever it does,

all moments are already there.

They exist as this massive four-dimensional block of all moments, all world lines, everything.

So you go back into the past as you perceive it.

You can do whatever you want.

You can walk around, step on butterflies, slap people on the face, kick over dinosaurs

or whatever. I don't think we can go back that far.

But you could do anything you want and it doesn't change anything

because you're going back in the block universe and doing those things

you were always already going to do.

And when you get home, everything's the same because that was already there past.

To everybody that stayed behind, that was already there past.

It was only the future for you to go back and do those things that you were already going to do.

And then you just went and did them, get home, everything's the same

because you were always going to do those things in the first place.

That's bizarre.

That's hard.

And if that is the actual model of the universe.

And again, I can only work in writing these books.

I can only work from what we know now.

Clearly there's a lot of things we don't know.

I'm not claiming to know anything beyond what we can know right now.

But physicists, despite not knowing what time is,

they know it's an emergent phenomenon.

There's something more fundamental that time comes from.

But they do agree on this block universe model.

And in that case, there is no paradox.

How did they all agree on that?

Like, wouldn't you have to test that and come up with some sort of a hypothesis

and then try to prove it or disprove it?

I shouldn't say they all agree.

Because there is the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics,

where if you went back in that situation, it would be change.

You would be changing the timeline.

Would it be changing your timeline?

Or would it be changing a different timeline as the question?

And how would you know?

There's more paradoxes with changing things than not changing things.

Why did you confidently state that you don't think that they can go back to the dinosaur age?

Partly because three different reasons.

One, I think they need tremendously high speed in order to be able to go back into the past.

So basically, again, working from all I can work from in this time

with the limited primitive primate knowledge that I have in the year 2012 to 2025,

I basically just started with Einstein's theory of relativity,

which he published in 1905 on the electrodynamics of moving bodies.

And then in 1915, he published his paper on general relativity.

From that point on, almost instantly,

there were solutions to his field equations that showed

what the right parameters of a massively highly energetic rotating ring or sphere or disk

that you could create close-down light curves.

That you could actually orient light cones back toward the past,

so you can physically go into the past.

We saw this with lens in Therin in like 1917 and 1918.

Kurt Gaudel.

Gaudel universe was not long after I think the '20s maybe.

And then importantly, in 1970s, you had Frank Tippler,

who showed mathematically that you can shrink that down to a disk.

He actually called it a disk.

And as one of the reasons I think that these are time machines is because

it has all of the parameters described by Frank Tippler.

He wasn't talking about UFOs,

but they seemingly have the ability to jump in and out of time.

They appear and disappear.

And I'm talking too much.

I'll wrap this up in a second.

You're definitely not talking too much.

Well, I mean, we're here to talk,

but I have an internal trigger where I'm like,

"Shut up, master, I'm talking too much."

No, they'll listen to that trigger, let it roll.

So anyway, if you look at the history of how we understand backward time travel,

what I think they're doing is that I think they're combining

general relativity and special relativity.

So I think they're orienting the light cones toward the past

by rotating these things really, really fast.

You hear that all the time.

They power up, they're spinning,

or at least there's some sort of flywheel on the outside that's spinning.

I think that's what's allowing them to move toward the past,

and then they take off.

So it's that high speed that I think allows them to go further into the past.

So they're using, you're aware of the twins paradox, I'm sure.

Time dilation, where you have two twins, they're the same age.

And then one goes into a spaceship, they move it tremendously high speed.

They come back, and they're much younger than their twin,

because time move faster back on Earth.

I think they're using that high speed motion,

while light cones are orienting toward the past

in order to travel deeper into the past

through that process of time dilation.

There are limits to how fast we can go.

Einstein was very adamant about this,

because there's an increase in inertial forces,

the faster you go relative to the speed of light.

That's why I thought we could never go.

That's why he thought that anything with mass

could never go faster than the speed of light.

Light can do it, because it's a wave, or a particle, or both.

So I think there's a limit to how fast we can go.

The other reason is because Jim Peniston in this hypnotic regression

said that.

He's like, "We can only go 40 to 60,000 years

into the past, or we might not get back."

You also have, and this is a more speculative one,

so take it for what it's worth.

You also have the Dan Burish testimony of this J-Rod,

this allegedly captured alien,

who said, "We're from the future."

We are you from the future, and we're from about 55 to 60,000 years in your life.

So those three things together are why I don't think we could go back

65 million years to hunt dinosaurs, which actually would be kind of fun.

When you've been talking about going the speed of light,

you're talking about not traditional propulsion,

but some form of propulsion that allows you to go at insane speeds.

Yeah, electromagnetic is what it seems to be.

And importantly, the electromagnetic force

is 10 to the 40 times more powerful than gravity.

So not only do I think that's what they used to fly,

I think that's what they used to manipulate space time.

Actually, in Dan Burish is not Dan Burish, Dan Farah.

I think you just had him on to the age of disclosure.

Yes.

There's this really cool thing at the end where how put off,

and I think Eric Davis as well,

we're talking about this space time bubble, right?

A really weird thing happened when we get to that in a second,

I don't want to jump around too much,

because I'll lose people in myself probably.

But this space time bubble that they form around the craft,

I think is also indicative of the fact

that they're manipulating space time,

that they're traveling in and out of time.

They use it to hide in plain sight.

They manipulate the rate at which they move relative to us

in their frame of reference,

and they're moving fast all around us.

And they've slowed time down outside of that bubble,

so everything is really, really slow to them,

and they can easily evade our bullets and our missiles,

but we don't see them because we don't have that frame rate of perception.

And if you slow videos down,

I'm sure you've seen these all the time,

and then you slow it down,

and you can see this saucer-shaped craft moving slowly across the sky

once you slow down the frame rate.

But a really funny thing happened,

because I've never actually talked about this with anyone before.

I owe a lot of the fact that anybody, even those who I am,

to help put off.

He, when I first started talking about this publicly in 2018,

and then I published my book in 2019, identified flying objects,

he, I guess, reached out to the head of Mufon at the time,

who was putting together the 50th anniversary Mufon event,

and was like, "Hey, you should have this McMaster's guy come talk."

And I found that out from the head of Mufon.

He's like, "Hey, just so you know how put off of all people recommended I contact you."

I had no idea that is, so I'd get on the internet and Google how put off.

He also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend,

and touched with me after, I think he did an interview with him in Weinstein.

I forget his name.

Eric?

Yeah, yeah.

So he did an interview with those two.

I guess how was like, "Hey, you should reach out to McMaster's,"

and he did, and we talked, and we've done stuff together.

But what was cool is that at the end of that age of disclosure film,

when he's talking about the space time bubble,

I thought back to after my first book came out,

and I was contacted by someone who claimed to be an ex-intelligence person,

who explained that exact same thing to me back in 2019,

that these things aren't doing 10,000 G maneuvers that would crush anything inside,

to them, and their frame of reference, what they feel is completely different than what we see.

Because in that space time bubble, they can be moving at 50,000 miles an hour

to a right hand turn, and it would splatter anything inside because of the G forces.

That's what we see on the outside.

But in that space time bubble, they probably feel one, two Gs at the most.

So I started thinking, "Man, was that how?"

Did how reach out to me with a different email address and say,

"Hey, just so you know, this is how these things are happening.

This is how they're able to do it."

And I was a dumbass. I still am a dumbass.

But I was an extra big dumbass back then.

And I was like, "Oh, cool, thanks, man."

A story went viral about my books, and Fox News picked it up, and space.com.

And so I was going through a bunch of emails.

They recognized I wasn't getting what they were saying.

I was not picking up what they were putting down.

And they were like, "No, this is important."

Set it again, and then it clicked.

I was like, "Oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense."

They're manipulating the rate at which time passes in this bubble around the craft.

And we see something completely different.

So when we're seeing this, we're imagining what we can do.

And we're sort of saying, "Well, what would be an advanced version of what we can do?"

And what this technology is, is something that's

levels of magnitude beyond even our theoretical,

like any sort of idea that we have currently about, you know,

potential future timelines of technology.

Yeah.

There's no one talking about gravity bubbles

that allow you to instantaneously traverse immense gaps in the universe.

Well, they might be talking about it by enclosed doors at right-bound or snare-for-space.

Right.

And have been for 70 years-- Yeah, that's a problem.

That's the real problem with disclosure.

Like, how much progress could we have made if they had opened up all this stuff?

And you got to imagine if you were an intelligent life form from another planet, you know,

Diana Pasolka talked about her and Gary Nolan

talked about how they refer to some of these things as donations.

They don't think of them as crashed vehicles because some of them are not crashed.

They're completely intact.

And-- I think David Grush said that, too, didn't he?

Yeah, I believe he did.

Yeah.

And even, you know, Lazar, when he was talking about it, you know, he--

Yeah, the sports model.

Wasn't that fully intact, too?

Fully intact.

Yeah.

Fully intact and operational and apparently it flew it around.

Okay.

That'd be fun.

Well, that was one of the reasons, you know, the whole story, how he got caught.

It's a really crazy story.

So, he used to work at Los Alamos.

He was a propulsion's expert.

Guy put a jet engine on the back of a Honda.

It was a real freak.

You know, he made a hydrogen corvette, like the 1990s.

He was nutty, dude.

Clearly an engineer.

Yes.

That part checks, though.

So, he guesses job on Area S4 and goes there and it's all documented in Jeremy Corbyl's

excellent movie, Bob Lazar, Area 51, and Flying Saucers.

So, he goes there and sees this thing and it's got an American flag sticker on it.

And, you know, they basically say, tell us how it works.

And he's like, oh, this is ours because he sees it as a sticker on it.

And then he realizes this is made out of some completely unknown alloy.

There's no seams in it.

It seems to be 3D printed.

There's no controls inside of it.

It's designed for something that's three feet tall.

It's all very fucking weird.

So, he's working on this thing, not making much headway at all.

They understood that there was an element, element 115.

That was not even on the periodic table.

Eventually found to actually be a thing by the Large Hadron Collider.

But even then, they only measured it for a millisecond, right?

So, then he's saying that they have this stable version of this element.

And you embarked it with radiation and creates this sort of gravity drive.

He's working on this thing and it's all top secrets.

We cannot tell his wife.

So, they're calling him up at 10 o'clock like, hey, get to the airport.

We need you.

And so, he would have to fly out at random times, fly out to S4.

And his wife was like, this motherfucker's having an affair.

Well, I'm going to have an affair too.

So, she starts fucking her flight instructor.

I think that's what it was.

When you have that kind of clearance, they are monitoring everything.

They're monitoring all your phone calls.

So, they've realized that his wife is having an affair.

And they think that he will be emotionally unstable and it's too dangerous to have him working on this insanely top secret information if he's not stable.

So, they tell him, you know, we're going to at least temporarily relieve you of your duties.

So, he's freaked out and he tells his friends like, hey, this is what they're doing there.

They have these things and they fly them every Wednesday.

I'm going to take you guys. There's an area we can go watch.

So, they take his friends out there on two separate occasions, I believe.

They get caught. They get caught, get arrested.

They release him and he realizes like, I'm kind of fucked.

They might kill me. I'm going to have to go public with this.

Contacts, George, NAP.

I did see that.

Then the whole thing is history.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's wild, man.

And I think, and it's still happening.

You know, there's still these whistleblowers.

He says they used to fly them and you could go watch them fly these things.

And they were moving in these really weird ways across the sky that you cannot do with conventional aircraft.

That they only sort of understood how to like pick it up and put it down.

They didn't understand how to like really...

That was out at Droom Lake, right?

Yes.

Yeah, I remember as a kid.

I've obviously been in this for a long time.

I remember as a kid seeing videos of people going out and then they eventually closed it down.

You couldn't get to that spot.

But there was like a...

That was during the Obama administration.

During the Obama administration, they actually had to admit that area 51 was real.

Because before that, no one even knew it was real.

I mean, there was always just a joke.

Like, area 51 was like for fun.

But then they said, "No, it is real."

And we need to expand the forbidden boundary.

Yeah.

And isn't that when people are gonna like bum rush it too?

Is that when that happens?

That was during COVID.

Oh, okay.

During COVID, there was a bunch of dorks that were like, "We're gonna crush area 51."

That's a good way to die.

Exactly.

They'll fucking kill you.

And that's the trail selection.

Yeah, they're working on a lot of stuff out there.

And some of it is weapons.

Right.

They can't have you...

Internet dorks from Reddit just running out into area 51.

Yeah, I think they eventually realized that.

'Cause I don't think they went out there.

But I could have been bad.

I think it was all bullshit.

They weren't gonna do it.

What are you gonna do?

How are you gonna get out there?

Yeah.

Engagement farming.

Yeah, man.

There's a lot of crazy shit that's been going on.

It's been going on for a while.

Jamie and I were talking before and about the stove piping, too.

The stove piping?

Yeah, the different ways that they compartmentalize what they're doing.

And they talked about it in Age of Disclosure, too.

That's a big problem because certain people

are working on these parts of the craft,

reverse engineer them to understand them.

But they don't have the whole picture.

Lizard was talking about that from the 1980s.

Yeah.

In 1989, he said that the people that were working on metallurgy

were not in contact with the people that are working on propulsion.

And he's like, "Science cannot operate like that."

Yeah, no, it can't.

'Cause you need to know what's going on beyond just this little part

that you're working on.

And if you have a bunch of people that are sharing information,

you get a much more comprehensive understanding of what this thing is.

Yeah, we all benefit from communication.

Right.

'Cause there could be something involved in the actual structure of it

that lends to its ability to do something.

It might not be simply just structure.

It might be structure with some sort of an ability.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you can't see the forest through the trees in these situations.

And it's unfortunate.

And what the argument they made in this docho

is that we're putting ourselves a disadvantage

because other countries are probably retrieved these things too.

And they might be working on yes and secrecy,

but if people are working together

and not stovepiping this thing, add infinitum,

then they might be able to actually make more progress faster than us.

So part of the disclosure of push is to be like,

"Yeah, these things are real.

We have them.

Let's get our best scientists together to work on this holistically

instead of compartmentalizing everything."

Which is imagine if they had done that from 1947 where we would be.

Exactly.

I think that's real. If Roswell was real,

if the crash was real,

if Philip Drake Corso is correct,

and all these people are telling the truth.

I know.

And we still have to preface these things

with if it's real.

Yeah, if it's real.

And yeah, I do the same thing.

I mean, coming from academia,

when I wrote my first book,

I had to be like, "If this is real,"

but it's hard.

It's this paradox of sorts

because how do you rate to explain something that isn't real?

Right.

What's the point of even doing that?

Yeah.

So I think we have to assume.

I'm actually teaching a class,

Montana Tech,

this spring called UFOs History and Science.

Ooh, I would take that if I was in school.

I think it's going to be a lot of fun.

Yeah.

I know. I'm pretty stoked about it.

And I had these artists design a poster

in Norway in the UK,

and just crazy.

I was like, "How conservative should I be with this?"

Like just a UFO.

And I gave them total artistic freedom.

And there's like an alien holding the earth

and this UFO is swinging around.

I'm like, "All right. I guess that's what I'm doing."

Plastered it all over campus to recruit people

to take the class.

But like, I'm going in on day one.

We're not going to fuck around with like,

"Are these things real?"

And we're not going to waste time on that.

We're going to jump in.

These are real.

Here's what we're doing.

This is what we know.

This is what we don't know.

Explore the theory.

Explore the history.

Explore the prehistory.

Because it's a waste of time.

Like these things are real.

You think they're real?

I don't know.

What makes you convinced?

I have read enough accounts

in researching this

and from people that I know.

I mean, starting from when I was a kid,

hearing my biological father's account.

You know, the way he told it.

And then I interviewed him again in college

to try to get more information

because I was just overhearing from the stairs

when I was supposed to be in bed.

He saw what he saw.

And then eventually, I saw some UFOs.

What did you say?

I was kind of pissed, actually,

because I was start talking about this in 2018.

And people were always like,

"You ever seen a UFO?"

No, never seen a UFO.

I'd like to.

And then finally, in 2022,

it might have been late 2021.

I don't remember exactly when.

It was kind of warm-ish.

So it was probably 2021.

But I was, everybody's in bed,

I'm at my house.

I live in a canyon.

And I was having a whiskey.

And I was like,

I just walked up the canyon wall

for some reason.

Like the hill behind my house.

I don't really know why.

I turned around,

and I could see these five super bright lights

over what's known as the Eastridge in Butementana.

They were just like sitting there

right over the Eastridge.

I was like, "Well, that's not normal.

Those aren't usually there."

And they weren't stars.

You know, they're way too big, way too close.

I would say they were probably within eight to,

they had five to eight miles.

You know, they were in the distance,

but they were like there.

And then I just kind of looked at them for a second.

I'm like, "Oh, that's weird."

And then one by one from right to left.

They just went,

shot off toward the southeast at like crazy speed.

You know, like the kind of,

like in in Star Wars or Star Trek,

and hyper drive,

and that little light trail,

like just one by one until they were all gone,

that I have no conventional explanation for that.

Wow.

But I've never been one of those people

that's like, "I need to see it to believe it."

Right.

Because I believe the people who say the same thing

over and over,

there's patterns that we can extract

from people's testaments

who have had these closing counters.

And that's one unfortunate thing

that's happening right now,

as we're talking about the pilots,

talking about police.

But people have been seeing these forever,

but they did such a good job

manufacturing the stigma around it

with Project Sign, Project Grudge,

Project Blue Book.

They discount these people

to make them seem insane.

You know, these...

That is one of the main points of evidence

that I would point to

that there is something.

When people think there isn't something,

I'm just like,

"You should really pay attention

to what they were trying to do during Project Blue Book."

Yeah.

Because one of...

I have a buddy of mine,

my friend Steve Graham,

shout out to Steve.

When he was a boy,

he was living in New York,

upstate New York,

and he filmed this red orb

that was flying across the sky,

and he took some photographs of it.

And they called someone,

some officials somewhere.

I don't remember.

He was very young.

And they said,

"We are going to analyze the photos,

and then we'll bring them back to you."

And they never returned the photographs.

When he called,

he said, "No agents.

There's no record of any agents coming to visit you.

We don't know what to tell you."

So they just took his photos,

and that was it.

But he said,

"Whatever it was, you know,

he was young.

I believe he was 10 or 11."

And he said,

"Whatever it was was really weird."

He goes, "It was this red orb

that was flying through the sky.

It was a spacecraft.

It wasn't a sun.

It wasn't a meteor."

It looked like it was moving purposely

and under control.

And it was there long enough

for him to take Polaroid of it.

Yeah.

And they just completely erased

any memory of it.

Or any evidence of it.

When he called, like I said,

they said, "No agents.

Visited you.

Whatever the agent's name

or there's no agents by that name."

That's kind of the status quo.

But they try to make you look like a fool.

Absolutely.

And that was intentional.

Like the state admission of Project Grudge

was to debunk these things,

come up with conventional explanations

and make people seem like idiots.

Right.

Not science.

It wasn't to investigate.

No, not at all.

The purpose wasn't,

let's get to the bottom of this.

Find out,

is this Russia?

Is Russia doing this?

It was not the purpose.

The purpose was make these people look like fools.

You only do that if you know something

that other people don't.

Yeah.

This episode is brought to you by Monster Ultra.

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That clean white can.

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That was a big one.

Yeah.

And then from then on,

it's been this trickle.

These guys like Ryan Graves,

and you know, guys like David Favour.

These David Favour's guys that was, you know,

he was in a fighter jet,

saw this thing move from 50,000 feet above sea level,

to sea level in less than a second.

Yeah.

And they saw this thing.

There was something under the water below it.

It's like whatever he saw.

And if you ever talked to him, have you ever talked to him?

I've talked to Alex Dietrich,

who was with him.

Very not.

He's a very reliable guy.

And very intelligent by the book.

Very disciplined.

No.

I was like a top gun pilot.

Exactly.

He was leading the whole group, right?

Yeah.

He's a commander.

Yeah.

And when he describes it,

it sounds very real.

Whatever he's talking about, he experienced.

I believe that.

And there's also a video of it.

There's video of it flying.

They have the radar data.

The radar data.

They know that it went to their designated meetup point.

The cap point.

Yeah.

Which is really weird.

It is.

And it indicates they knew the future.

Or they were part of our military.

Right.

I kind of wonder if they take tech.

Because it is somewhat anomalous in the context of a lot of things in the UFO lore,

as far as spinning discs or big triangular craft,

this one kind of seems like one of ours.

Well, it is odd that these things happen where there's a lot of military training exercises.

Like this one was off the coast of San Diego.

Yeah.

It was off the Nimitz.

You know, so they had the Nimitz, which was out there.

Obviously got a lot of military in San Diego.

And the Roosevelt, too, I think is where they were captured in the radar.

And the ones that Ryan Grave experienced were all east coast.

Again, it's all near military bases.

It's all where they do military training exercises.

Yeah.

And why not figure out what you can do with people that you train with already, anyway?

Right.

And why not see like what is detectable and what's not.

You know, Ryan Grave's talked about how in 2014,

they upgraded all the sensors and the jets.

And then also when they started picking these things up all over the place.

He said they were encountering them virtually every time they went out.

Which is so weird.

Imagine you're encountering, was it a circle inside of a sphere or a sphere inside of a circle?

I think it was a circle in a sphere.

Yeah.

Whatever it was.

Yeah.

Which one was it?

Was it a circle with a sphere?

It was.

I just saw a picture on Twitter recently.

It was a little circle in a cube or something.

Very fucking weird, whatever that is.

It is.

And able to hover motionless and like 200 knots of wind.

Yeah.

And it would make sense if we are reverse engineering these.

They're going to look pretty primitive.

It's basically a big propane tank that they're flying around.

Like they probably started simple.

It's probably unmanned.

But they're testing that capability to manipulate the space time to shoot off.

You know, because it dropped 10,000 feet.

Okay.

That's what it's supposed to look like.

Yeah.

A cube inside of a sphere.

Yeah.

Apparently my dyslexia extends to images too.

Explain using UFO patents.

Click on that.

Explained.

A recent article about the Hill is highlighted the reports of a cube in a sphere.

UAP military pilots have been seeing as reported by Graves.

Where he once again highlights how often our pilots are seeing these things.

And while he doesn't believe they are conventional drones or balloons.

And so this is obviously some sort of a computer-generated rendition.

Ah, the fucking pop-up.

Yeah.

For sure.

So, I mean, I didn't get it.

Yeah, they didn't get it.

I'm sure of it, but.

Here's the patents.

Scroll up a little bit.

So a month ago I did a deep dive in a post about UFO patents.

How magneto-hydro-dynamic propulsion systems could explain some of the observations.

Includes an expired patent for the 1960s.

And a few newer patents describing not only the propulsion,

but how the plasma field can make the craft invisible radar.

Huh.

Huh.

Yeah.

I mean, again, it makes sense.

Like, if we have been reverse engineering these for 70 years,

we would start bringing them out.

They would look weird.

They wouldn't necessarily look like the craft that we struggled to fly at Graum Lake.

That we could go up and down with, and that's about it.

Like, they would look like this little thing that's simple.

It's basic.

It's a propane tank, or it's a cube within a sphere.

They probably had that backwards again.

And then experiment with it, see what you can do.

And a lot of people make the argument, well, why would they do that's dangerous?

You know what, if there was a mid-air collision.

If they are actually manipulating space-time and these things,

like they seemingly are with the saucer-shaped craft, you don't have to worry about that.

You know, this isn't a cat-and-mouse game where the cat-and-mouse are equal.

Like, you have complete control of space-time in and around that area.

You're not going to run into anybody.

They're all moving extremely slowly relative to you.

According to put-off and Davis at the end of that docker, and whoever reached out to me,

whether it was Hal or not, somebody reached out to me

and explained the same thing in 2019.

And it makes a lot of damn sense.

And to kind of extend it into my area of research,

if you can manipulate space and time in and around this craft,

what's keeping you from using that to travel through time?

I guess.

I mean, but again, that's with the different model,

not the multi-world model, but what was the other model that you described?

Block universe.

Block universe.

Block universe theory.

Yeah.

The idea that they would be so advanced that they could genetically engineer a body

and get to whatever state they are at where they communicate telepathically,

but yet they can't solve the problem of old DNA, like needing...

What do they need?

Genetic diversity?

Like, what is it?

What are they trying to get out of us?

Are they trying to get the source material instead of the old stuff,

or instead of the stuff that they've had forever?

One of the arguments I made in my first and second books is that,

really since European colonialism started about 500 years ago,

we are all becoming one inner breeding population.

So it used to be that you had different isolated populations,

and then occasionally there would be gene flow that introduces new genes.

We all are just one population on this in-bred island of Earth,

where are you going to get new gene variants?

And then you combine that with the things we just talked about,

with the potential for things to go wrong with trying to make designer babies

or the trends toward reduced fertility in men and women,

and importantly, the potential that there could be some massive cataclysm

that puts us into a huge bottleneck where there just is no genetic diversity at all.

Like if you think about something that happened that wiped out

a huge percentage of the population,

and there are warnings about this over and over again with experiencers and contactees,

there's some cataclysmic thing coming.

If that were to happen, all of those problems were already having.

All of the trends that are already leading to us having problems with fertility in the future

would be hugely exacerbated by a very limited gene pool.

Well, we know that human beings have gotten down to a very small population in the past.

Yeah.

So we are...

So we're already kind of limited in our diversity.

What do you think of the theory that human beings have been genetically engineered?

Man, when I first started in all this, I wouldn't touch that one

because I had to impose some restrictions on myself

so I didn't seem like a crazy person.

And keep your academic standing.

I don't really care anymore.

That would be honest. Well, you sold a few books.

Yeah, sold some books.

I mean, that's the thing.

I do have the respect of my peers.

And it's not a career killer anymore.

No, exactly.

You know, back in 2018, I was kind of rolling the dice.

I was really nervous about it.

I went to the chair of my department and was like,

"Hey, just so you know, in case there's any pushback,

I'm publishing this book about whether UFOs are future humans."

And he looked at me and cocked his head and it's like, "That's our job."

So we're supposed to be doing asking questions like that.

Like he was all pissed off like, "Why are you even asking me this?"

Or telling me this.

Well, that's a cool guy before.

Yeah, I was like, "Sweet."

All right, well, check.

I got one on board at least.

But I was really conservative in this approach.

Like, the dean actually of my college

who gave me an award for scholarship and researchers.

And there's a lot of amazing researches

at Montana Technological University.

Like, we're very well known for research and scholarship.

She gave me an award in 2022 for research and scholarship.

And all I was doing at that point was UFO stuff.

You know, that was kind of a nod too.

But she was telling me the other day in a meeting

some of the chair of the department, unfortunately.

And she was like, "Oh, your dissertation book."

Because I did kind of write my first book as a dissertation.

It's very scientific.

It's very dense.

It's very technical.

But I needed to do that because of the stigma,

because of the shame.

And you're right, it is changing, which is great.

But there are certain things that we still can't.

That are hard for me to talk about,

because it starts to get into ancient aliens territory.

And that's one of them.

Are they manipulating us genetically?

Have they been for a long time?

I don't know.

I used to say I don't know,

so I didn't have to talk about it.

Now I say I don't know, because I genuinely don't know.

Maybe.

Well, how could you?

How could I? Yeah, good point.

Yeah, I mean, it's all theoretical.

But there seems to be a trend in at least the encounter reports.

When people have reported some sort of communication with these things,

there is a lot of talk of genetic manipulation.

There's a lot of talk of--

It's the most common trope thing.

But it also makes sense when you look at how different we are

than any other animal that exists or has existed.

True.

They are so advanced and so weird, and we vary so much,

like biologically and structurally.

I mean, there's animals.

There's different kinds of wolves, right?

There's gray wolves and red wolves, and they vary.

And, you know, red wolves and gray wolves,

they can't even interbreed and create viable offspring

in terms of their ability.

They would be hybrids if they did breed where they wouldn't.

But they don't breed with red wolves.

And coyotes, which is also a type of wolf,

that's kind of where it ends.

Whereas humans are fucking, at least coyotes all look like coyotes.

Wolves all kind of look like wolves.

Like with humans, you get seven-foot tall people,

and five-foot tall people, and round people, and thin people.

But we are actually all very similar genetically.

There's a study done in the '70s looking at polymorphisms,

and they found that between, like,

what it used to be thought there were races,

like African's Asians and Europeans.

They didn't consider Native Americans or Australians or anybody.

But they did this study on polymorphisms,

found that only about six to seven percent

of all of our genetic differences can be accounted for

by those between group differences.

And they did the same thing with Y chromosomes,

they did the same thing with craniofacial anatomy,

and found that we're all very similar.

So despite those differences in height, weight, skin color,

hair color, eye color, we're very, very similar.

Which could, again, lead to problems related to genetic

homogenization, limited gene pool in the future,

needing to go back and sample gametes from the past.

Another argument I hear people make related to what you're saying,

like an argument for potential genetic manipulation

of the human species over time,

is that it all happened really fast.

We see this acceleration in our rate of change,

the rate of our technological development.

Those things might indicate that there's some sort of seeding

in the past with not just technology,

but the genetics that allow us to expand our minds

and develop these things.

Well, there is the weird stories from ancient scripts,

ancient texts, like the book of Enoch.

Like, what is that all about?

That's some weird stuff.

We're talking about the watchers coming down from the sky

and mating with humans and creating the Nephilim

who destroy everything.

Yeah, I might get some shit for this,

but I would be willing to bet that all major religions

and the little ones have some sort of UFO alien component

to the myth and legend that gave rise to them over time.

It makes sense.

It does.

Actually, the third book I wrote,

Revelation flips the whole script on Revelation,

and it interjects time travelers, it interjects this whole...

For a while, there is this question of whether there was a fight

over the timeline,

whether the grays were coming back

because some cataclysm needed to happen,

and we all went underground,

and that's why we have big eyes and pale skin,

so we had to evolve underground for a while,

and then another group trying to keep that from happening.

So the book kind of explores that in a fictional capacity,

and I wrote it because my friends weren't reading my science books,

because they're dense and scientific,

and I was like, man, you know, what if I wrote a book

that's just like a crass, sex drug-fueled exploration

of like this time travel idea,

and that's where that book came from.

It still ties in all of these same concepts scientifically,

but in the story, like the main character is an inter-temporal sex researcher.

She goes back in time and just fucks everybody to learn what sex is.

And that's the book I gave you when I got here, actually.

It's a weird one.

That's right here.

Yeah, it's a weird one.

But it's super fun to write, you know?

And they're like, and then her, the professor in this book,

he's like the, he's an inter-temporal drug kingpin of sorts.

But it's like exploring these same ideas in a different way, you know?

With fiction, it's satire, it's comedy.

The word most commonly used is it's hilarious.

It's a comedy book.

You know, I wanted people that don't read the science books

to still be introduced to this concept

and the science behind it in a different way.

And man, it was so much more fun to write than those science books.

What do you think of when people start theorizing about some sort of a breakaway civilization

that lives under the ocean?

Yeah.

So we actually published a paper about that last June,

about the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis.

You mentioned it on your show in a really funny way.

It went viral internationally.

It was absolutely insane.

The impact this thing had.

Like I had to go on Fox and Friends one morning to talk about it.

And then the next day I did--

What made it go viral?

What was the--

Well, because I published it with two guys from Harvard.

I was a co-author on the paper.

And so it's clickbait.

It's Harvard researchers say dinosaurs are aliens and they live among you.

So stuff like that.

Oh.

And it worked.

Yeah.

Well, it makes you go, why?

Yours was the funniest one.

You guys pulled it up on your screen.

And you're like, man, these Harvard researchers must snuck in where they're doing the psilocybin

experiments and ate all the mushrooms.

That cracked me up.

And I don't think we did.

I don't remember if we did.

I don't think we did.

But it definitely had elements of like these guys ate a lot of mushrooms,

which was part of why it went viral.

But there were some really solid arguments in there.

And the title of the paper was "Scientific openness to the crypto-terrestrial idea."

That's all we're advocating for.

And we listed four main ways in which this crypto-terrestrial idea could happen.

And the fourth one is what really got clickbaity.

Because we're like, maybe there is a breakaway civilization.

That's the crypto-terrestrial idea.

But maybe an advanced reptile dinosaur didn't go extinct.

And this was, you know, we don't think this actually happened.

But we're just putting out arguments for what this idea could be.

And so, yeah, they took that and put like dinosaurs at keyboards and stuff like that.

But one of them is time travelers.

And it would make sense if you were in the future instead of jumping back through time

in order to study people on a specific time,

you set up a base on the far side of the moon.

We're up until the 60s, 70s.

We wouldn't know they were there.

Set up a base under the oceans.

And this would go for the extraterrestrial idea too.

Instead of traversing the vast swaths of space,

come here, set up under the oceans, where we're not going to find you,

in Antarctica, far side of the moon.

And then you can do everything here locally instead of having a jump across space,

extraterrestrial, jump across time, extraterrestrial.

Well, it also explains some of the very strange ways that they've observed crafts moving under the water.

Like they've observed crafts moving under the water at 500 knots,

but there's big as a football field.

And apparently, there's video of these things.

Apparently, there's the Navy has something that they filmed that is as big as a football field

that was going essentially 500 miles an hour underwater without any ripples,

not disturbing the water at all, not creating a wake.

And then moving right out of them, the transmedium capacity.

Well, when you think about how little exploration, we've done to the bottom of the ocean,

we know more about the moon than we do about the surface of the actual bottom of the ocean.

Yeah, it would be a great place to hide out.

And again, the ability to move in and out of air, water, space, upper atmosphere,

with no disturbances, the transmedium capabilities, that whole warp space time bubble

around them would help explain that too, that they're not experiencing the water.

They're not experiencing the air as they move between them.

Like, I always think about, I really love skiing.

And one of my favorite times to ski is late season.

You know, it's April, the sun's out, everybody's in t-shirts or bikinis or whatever.

I don't wear bikinis, but people do.

And you get into that slushy stuff.

You're cruising down the mountain, you hit the slush and you just go ass over kettle, you know,

over the top of your skis.

And that's what we would expect if they're moving in and out of air and water and space

is that there would be some resistance, there's not.

You know, they don't have that.

And it does indicate that there is some sort of manipulation of space and time around them.

And yeah, moving underwater, these football field size craft going that fast.

I mean, how can you do that if there is actual resistance from the water?

Well, it just makes you wonder how much does the government know?

You know, you've seen that guy Timbershot talk about it.

He's hilarious.

Yeah, it was very funny.

I mean, he was just casually mentioning that there's five different locations in the ocean

of the world and the seas of the world where they've observed crafts coming out of.

That's a very weird thing to just say while you're walking, just casually talk about it.

And with such confidence, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, they're doing these skiffs.

They're talking to people behind closed doors.

They don't have the same requirement to not disclose things as those people do.

Right.

You know, they didn't sign NDAs.

And he has a hilarious way of talking about it.

He's got the best one-liners of anybody discussing this stuff.

I mean, somebody knows.

Somebody knows a lot of things.

A lot of people probably know a lot of things and have for a very long time.

But, you know, what is that relationship?

What do they control?

Why are we not allowed to know?

Well, this is the real question.

Like, what do they actually know about what's going on in the ocean?

Like, if there are bases somewhere down in the ocean, there's that weird one, the Baltic sea anomaly.

I don't know that one.

Yeah, with that one.

Jesse Michaels just did a show about it where he interviewed the guy who found it.

I think they're treasure divers.

And they found this very strange thing that is sitting on the floor of the ocean.

And it has right angles to it.

It's kind of curved.

There's an actual, I don't know what kind of an image is of it.

But they have explored this thing.

And he's convinced that it's not a natural formation.

Yeah, interesting.

See if you can find something on the Baltic sea.

Put that into our sponsor complex.

It looks like a fucking Millennium Falcon.

What's wrong with my mouth today?

I can't say Millennium Falcon.

Like, that's what it looks like.

That's interesting.

So, you know, look, this could be something that's sitting on, or it could be something that was built at a time where this was not covered by ocean.

Yeah.

Like, you live in Montana.

Montana used to be the great inland sea, right?

There was, you could find seashells in Montana, which is really weird.

Yeah, and even all along the coast of Alaska, like there's about 110 foot rise and sea level over the last 12,000 years.

So, what...

More images of this thing?

Like, what is that, though?

Yeah.

But these are all artistic renditions.

Some of them are.

But the other one, that blue one that you see there, that's the real thing.

That's what it actually looks like.

Yeah, it's pretty anomalous.

Right.

Like, what is that, though, is that an ancient structure that people built, you know, 20,000 years ago?

Like, what is it?

Baltic Sea anomaly is a sonar detected sea floor formation.

The northern Baltic Sea found in 2011 by Swedish OceanX, formerly Ocean Explorer team during a treasure hunting expedition.

Most geologists who have examined the available data consider it a natural rock formation shaped by glacial processes,

despite ongoing population about UFOs or artificial origin.

Yeah.

It's tough, man.

Does that thing off the coast of Malibu, too?

Is that Malibu, or is it a Catalina island?

Was that one thing where it was in Google Earth, and then they blurred it out after a while?

I think that's just a Google Earth thing.

Maybe.

Maybe not, but...

But it was on Google Earth, and then now it's blurred.

I read where they're getting the data from Google Earth, you know, like where that, what is that data, you know?

Also, it was like bad data, and then it cleared up.

Okay.

Also, that's a good answer.

That's a good answer for the government.

I did a talk in Manhattan last year.

And Tim Gallaudet was one of the speakers, and he would show an images of, I think what you're talking about,

where there was like this sort of almost like a cliff on the water, and then had some strange things around it.

Yeah.

It had been modified, or...

I don't remember exactly what he was saying, but I think that's what you're talking about.

Yeah.

That was just off of Catalina Island.

That's right.

Yeah, it was very weird looking.

A lot of people were spec...

And one of the reasons why it's very weird, there's a lot of sightings off of Catalina Island.

Mm-hmm.

There's a lot of sightings out there.

Yeah, and it, you know, again, it makes sense if they were trying to covertly study us, regardless of their origins,

ultra-dress, true, extra-dress, true, whatever, use the oceans.

Perfect.

Perfect bass.

It's very different.

Especially if you can move in and out of there with impunity, not just because we won't see them,

but they have the technology to make the water and the air the same thing.

Click on that image where the cursor's at?

Yeah, that's it.

That's it.

Whatever that is.

That looks real weird.

That looks real weird.

Whatever the hell that is.

That's so strange.

That's so strange looking.

But again, that's like, is that what it really looks like?

What are the new images?

Is the new one on the right?

Okay, that's it, right there.

The one that had up says it's from 2014.

Like, what the hell is that?

It's got pillars.

I mean, that's very strange.

It has those sort of uniform shaped pillars.

Yeah, and the top looks very flat.

Structural, something you would make to withstand the weight of the water.

Right.

Like a garage door.

Yeah.

It gets a garage door to a bass.

Yeah.

No, I mean, again, when I started out in this, I was relatively conservative with my views on things.

But man, further you go down this rabbit hole, just the weirder shit gets and you can't do that anymore.

You've got to recognize that there's a lot of things that just...

You can't write off, you know.

The impossible will become possible, or at least you have to open your mind to the fact that these things you used to think were impossible.

Need a second look.

Right.

And then there's also the people that work in military intelligence that work with these defense contractors that say there's black operations, like operations that are completely top secret, that are 30 years ahead of anything that you can imagine right now.

So you go, okay, well, what does that look like?

What does 30 years ahead of us now look like?

Yeah, like that was SR71, the black bird or whatever it is, black, whatever.

Yeah, like we didn't even know about that until 20 years after they had made it.

Right.

And it makes sense.

You know, you don't want your enemies to know.

And that's an argument that's been made over and over, that we can't disclose things because then our enemies will have this technology.

And I always thought, growing up, that, you know, it'll take a war before they're like, oh, we need to use these things.

We've been developing.

Like we're getting our ass kicked in this war.

It's time to bring out the UFOs and our streets actually is our weapons and stuff.

But I kind of think it's going to happen before that.

It's weird to say, but I kind of get the sense that it is happening.

There's been a lot of false horizons.

People have been saying that for a long time, but it doesn't feel different.

I mean, you definitely does feel different.

It definitely feels that the general public is a lot more open to the concept without being thought of as a fool.

It used to be when I was a kid, if you'd bring up UFOs, people would just roll their eyes, especially before the internet.

Oh my God.

If you brought up any of that stuff, they would laugh at you.

I was reading some book on Roswell once, like I think it was in the 1990s.

And you know, this guy's like, what the fuck you wasting your time on this complete horseshit for?

There's no such thing as UFOs.

I'm like, how do you say that with such confidence?

We live in a galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy, with hundreds of billions of stars in other galaxies.

And there's hundreds of billions of other galaxies.

Like, what are you saying?

That's crazy to say that we are the only ones.

It is.

They did a really good job at making us feel like idiots.

Well, you can see how that can be done.

I mean, look what they did during the COVID crisis, you know, if you don't get a vaccine, make your end of life preparations now.

You know, like, you're going to be killing everybody.

No one's going to survive.

This disease targets the own vaccinated.

And people believed all that.

I think the two are related too, because we started to figure out that we've been lied to about UFOs.

And the obvious question is, what else?

What else were they lying to us about?

Yes.

Well, I think once we realize how strong the propaganda machine is and how global people are.

Oh, yeah, that's the big one.

Easily.

I mean, if people were going to accept something as 100% truth out of any investigation or any skepticism

from the pharmaceutical drug industry, they are the most evil motherfuckers that have ever lived.

They are responsible for more death from releasing drugs that have horrible adverse side effects that they knew about.

They have taken the largest criminal fines of any companies.

I mean, what they've done is really fucking creepy.

When you look at how they release drugs that they knew were going to fuck people over and they knew those people didn't need those drugs.

And yet, when you put people in a scary situation and you make them terrified and you offer up a solution,

they believe wholeheartedly that the pharmaceutical drug companies were only telling the truth

and anybody who didn't believe is the best interest in the mind.

So it's like that sheep mentality is so strong with so many people.

There are so many cowards in the world and so many followers that would just step in line.

The moment things get weird, whenever they get challenged, the moment things get weird,

that it just makes sense that if you make it like socially, you become a social pariah.

If you start talking about UFO, here is Mike, who is fucking wacky UFO theories.

People don't talk about those things. They don't want to bring them up.

And the military industrial complex is kind of the equivalent of the pharmaceutical companies on the other side of this coin.

Sure. We trust them. They defend us, whatever they are making.

I'm sure they'll use for great purposes.

But yeah, I mean, a big part of that was making us feel like idiots were talking about this stuff.

And that is changing, though. And it's not largely because of ancient aliens.

It's not only on the show five times. I had a little bit of cognitive dissonance.

The first time I went on that show goes, they go way out there.

They get out there, man. It's just fun.

It is fun. You know, and that's how I approached it.

Well, I also approached it because I was trying to talk about this theory.

They did this funny bait and switch for the first three episodes I was on.

Whether they're like, "Hey, come down, talk about your theory."

I'm like, "Oh, okay. So I'll go to LA or wherever."

And we do the shoot. They cut out everything about my books and this theory

and just used me to talk about whatever the show was actually about.

Well, small snippets.

Yeah. I cut onto that. And so the fourth time I went on, I was like,

"All right, but I'm only doing it if you guys actually."

And one of the episodes was about this whole theory anyway.

It made sense, but I forget what we're talking about.

Oh, the stigma.

So one of the cool things that's been happening,

largely because of ancient aliens in your show, you know, you talk about this a lot.

And it helps normalize it for a lot of people.

Is that there's a safe space now, you know?

Like where you'll be talking about these things.

And some of you'll come up who had a sighting when they were, you know,

a teenager in the '40s or whatever.

And they never told anybody.

And now it's like, wait, it's safe to talk about this.

And that's so cool to see, man.

And then it makes me realize just how many people have had an experience

that's been bottled up inside.

And it's liberating to let that come out.

And we're sharing information.

And contact these, too.

You know, unfortunately, I started saying earlier,

we're still kind of stuck on, that's a changing, too.

But we're still largely stuck on the cockpit videos,

and the flair, and the gimbal, and the go fast.

But people have been taken into these craft.

They've had stuff put on their junk.

And they're seeming to take it into junk.

Like there's a lot of, no no square touching that happens.

Anal probes, you know?

And we used to laugh at that.

But that is such a common theme throughout these.

And we need to recognize that these people

are having real experiences.

And have been having them for a very long time.

Let's move on.

Let's talk to these people.

Let's let the contact these and the experiences

who have had the closest form of a close encounter you can have.

Let's trust them now.

Let's listen to what they have to say.

Let's be discerning, you know?

But let's keep an open mind.

Well, I think one of the more interesting things

when you start talking about stories and encounters.

One of the more interesting things

that Jacques Vallet has done,

where he brings up stories that absolutely predate

the modern cultural visions of UFOs.

Like the modern cultural concept

of the close encounter of the third kind type grays

that come down in a flying saucer.

All those things like flying saucer

didn't even come out until the Kenneth Arnold experiences.

So these encounters, people are talking about from the 1700s

and the 1800s.

And they're talking about

something coming down and something interacting with people

and, you know, them having some sort of experience.

Tax Act is here anytime you want to easily file your taxes.

Tax Act is here for the early birds

who like to knock them out as soon as the season opens

and for the procrastinators

who like to wait until the very last minute.

Where Jesus come from.

Kind of an unexplainable pregnancy.

I think Jesus was time traveler personally.

A time traveler.

Yeah, that's another aspect of that book.

That's in your satire?

It's in my satire book, yeah.

I think...

I really have Jesus coming out of the UFO.

I've got some shit for that.

With the double bird.

He's throwing up the double bird.

It turns out Christians don't like that.

Well, you know, I can't please everybody, right?

No, you can't.

But there are many aspects of Jesus' life.

Big fan of Jesus, by the way.

That are very paranormal.

A lot of these seemingly

miraculous things I think can be explained

with a lot of the same technologies

that we see today.

It's very unusualizing them.

Obviously, Ezekiel is the one that gets talked about a lot.

The wheel within a wheel.

The telepathy.

The embers, burning embers.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then you look at the Nephilim.

Like, and all kinds of different...

certain Baba-Wanau-Resa.

This story from Zulu lore.

It's a fucking alien abduction, man.

And they've been telling this story for thousands of years.

So it's this woman, the sky goddess,

who chooses a man to mate with.

And comes down.

Tests him to make sure that he knows

that it appears in his dreams.

Communicates telepathically.

Gets him ready for this interaction.

He's in love with her.

Never met her before.

She comes down from the sky.

And takes him up with her on this rainbow of light.

Oh.

Like, all of the...

And I made the case in my second book

that if Antonio V.S. Boas had been able to go back

with the woman that he had sex with.

It's basically the same story.

Hmm.

So his Brazilian lawyer is telling a story

that's identical to this Zulu legend

that's been told for centuries millennia.

I don't know how far it goes back.

It's not weird.

But we need to look outside of just...

the mainstream view.

Which is finally happening.

So I'm excited about that.

I'm very grateful.

I have a lot of gratitude about what's happening.

Well, the question is so far there.

Why did the mainstream view

become what it is?

And we know that that is because of a

concerted, concentrated propaganda effort.

Yeah.

And a very effective one.

I mean back in it.

But there was no other media back then.

They had complete control of newspapers,

complete control of television stations.

I mean, how many...

How much do we know now about various news anchors

that were actually CIA agents?

There's a fucking shit ton of them.

Even if they weren't, they were being force-fed

this stuff that they were happy to regurgitate.

Absolutely. Yeah.

They just wanted to look good and have a suit and speak like an expert.

Here we go.

And if you don't tell the lines, somebody else will.

Yeah. And you're living a great life.

You travel Mercedes, living a nice house.

Yeah. Why would you fuck this up?

Over a UFO story, just tell your friends.

Just tell everybody what you're supposed to tell them.

Yeah. It's easy to get people to comply like that.

Especially when they're dependent upon

whether it's a corporate entity like CNN

or whether it's New York Times or whatever it is.

It's not hard to give people to comply.

No. And you're right.

Since the internet, things have changed.

Radically.

Really radically.

But I think there's a downside too.

We've already kind of been moving toward a post-truth existence.

Good Lord, man.

Like, I'll scroll through videos on Twitter now.

90% of them are fake.

Oh, there's so much AI now.

It's so ridiculous.

I make the unfortunate decision to go into the comments

to see what percentage of people think it's real.

80.

90? I would say at least 90.

It's insane. I have still haven't on my phone.

It's a stupid fucking video of a rabbit

nursing that's little rabbit babies

and one of them's a cat.

So the mom cat comes in, picks the fucking baby cat up

by the nose like they're magnetically attached.

It doesn't even grab it.

Just the baby kind of comes with it.

And then walks out the back of the burrow.

Like, there's no back to a rabbit burrow.

You know, and everybody's like, oh, whoops.

That cat made a mistake.

It's drinking from the wrong species.

People don't see it.

They don't see that this is very obviously fake.

And it's not just for that.

Like, they're using it for propaganda.

They're using it for the same type of thing that they've used forever.

Oh, well, this UFO phenomenon's not real

because AI made this video.

Well, there's also the problem with

what percentage of people that are even commenting

are actual people.

Exactly.

There's a huge amount of bots that are communicating

on all the social media platforms.

A giant percentage of the comments are not real people.

That's a really good point.

Yeah.

No, you're right.

So they would comment on anything

and just say, wow.

But that also still feeds the perception that it's real.

Yes.

Because other people that maybe don't have

critical thinking skills or discernment

because, you know, they're a 90-year-old grandma

that doesn't know how to use a computer.

She sees that, oh, it's cute.

I think it erodes the consensus intelligence.

Yeah.

Like the overall level of intelligent discourse

that a society puts out, you know,

if you have a town square, which is like Twitter,

is our town square, right?

If that town square is populated by fake people,

like enormous percentage populated by fake people

that are just designed to say the most inflammatory,

ridiculous things to get interaction and engagement.

And also to erode people's faith in other people

and to make us argue with each other.

To construct the other.

Like you were saying at the beginning of this conversation

it feels tribalism.

Yeah.

It's really problematic.

My hope is that eventually there'll be some way

to accurately discern and it'll stop that stuff from happening.

You know, that you'll be able to tell like very clearly

whether or not it's an actual person.

The problem is that if that does happen,

it's a gateway to digital ID

because you would have to lose your anonymity.

If you're like anonymity is very important for whistleblowers.

Like say if you work for corporation,

you find out that corporation is dumping stuff into a river

and it's all secret and it's illegal

and you know that if you tell they're going to kill you.

You know, and you're an executive at that corporation,

you're conscious as troubled.

You can make a fake account.

You could sign up through a VPN.

You can make a fake account

and you could post all this information that you know

and you could break a story

and you don't face any consequences.

You don't get killed.

If you have digital ID,

if we know who everybody is this posting something

and you make that same post,

who knows what they do to you?

Who knows what happens?

Yeah and it's been happening.

There's been whistleblowers who have had mysterious deaths.

All over a long time too.

All over the place.

Yeah, it's --

Didn't Gary Webb --

Didn't he shoot himself in the head twice?

Or was that the story?

Was that the story?

That was the one Tim Berchetto always says,

"Get shot."

Or "You shoot yourself in the back of the head four times."

Yeah, I mean, I think it's in reference to that.

How did Gary Webb die?

Yeah, I'm making sure it's true.

Yeah, there's --

But even if that's not true,

there's a bunch of stories about whistleblowers

who go missing.

Yeah, there's plenty of examples.

If you're inconvenient,

you're going to cost them billions of dollars

and they can just get rid of you.

They just get rid of you.

Whoever they are.

Yeah, it all comes down to money

and it has for a very long time.

Someone was deciding if this was accurate.

They found the case where someone shot themselves

in the head eight times.

Oh, that's a lot.

So there's a couple cases where it's happened.

Boy, that's the commitment.

I mean, I guess if it was like an airsoft gun or something.

I don't think that killed me.

That'd be a really inefficient way to kill yourself.

Yeah.

The whole thing's crazy.

Do you think it's even possible to kill your airsoft gun?

Well, your airsoft gun.

Maybe like a lobotomy kind of.

If you shot yourself up the nose eight times.

That's not that fast.

That's not as --

I mean, it might --

The brain has CO2 protection.

Oh, that's C, so you couldn't --

I guess.

If you got enough airsoft bullets in you.

It just fills up your entire day.

And you never went to the doctor and you eventually get an infection.

I think somebody might intervene at that point.

When I was living in LA when I first moved there, a guy had killed himself accidentally

on a set because he took a gun that was a blank gun and he shot himself in the head,

like trying to be funny, and he killed him.

Because the force that comes out of the gun is still extremely powerful.

And he put it to his temple and he literally caved his skull in.

Oh, that sucks.

Yeah.

That's rough.

Yeah, that was just an actor who just didn't know any better and he thought he was just going to be funny.

Yeah, so shooting yourself in the head twice, highly unlikely.

Eight times.

I mean, I guess you could shoot yourself in the head once and just really fuck it up,

but be aware that you're still alive and be committed to doing it and then shoot yourself a second time.

I guess it's possible.

I mean, unless the pain response was like, "Yeah, it didn't feel good.

I don't want to do that again."

Or maybe the pain response was so bad.

You want to do it again and just stay at that point.

Yeah, like whoops, let's get this over with.

I don't know.

But our point, what we're getting at is that for the longest time,

there was no real outlet to get true information out other than books.

And books are so easily maligned.

If someone has a cookie book, you're reading and go, "Oh, that guy's nuts."

That is a conspiracy theory.

And then, of course, that term's popular as during the JFK assassination because of that very reason.

There was a lot of people that doubted the official story.

And those people became conspiracy theorists.

Have you looked into that much?

Oh, yeah.

I kind of thought you had.

Who do you think did it?

I think there was a lot of people.

I think here's a mistake that people make.

They say Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone or Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved.

And he was a Patsy.

Lee Harvey Oswald shot a cop.

There are really, there's like very few people that disagree on that.

I think his office or Tippett, I think that was his name, when he was on the run.

So, Lee Harvey Oswald absolutely seems to be some sort of intelligence asset in some way or another.

Married a Russian woman, lived in Russia for a while, came back to the United States during the time of the whole...

I mean, this is right after the red scare.

The fact that this guy went to Russia, married a Russian woman, came back and the whole thing screwing.

He could have been a Patsy and involved, too, right?

Yes, absolutely.

I heard some theory once about like the driver turn around with some...

No, no, no.

That's a harsher gun.

Was there something about like a poisonous fish?

Harsher.

That's all harsher.

That's why I was asking because I don't know.

But there's a lot of those, one of the best ways to make a conspiracy theory seem absolutely ridiculous,

is to add a bunch of really silly ones into the mix.

And so that any conspiracy theory involving something that's not the official narrative.

But there's just so many aspects of the Kennedy assassination,

the back into the left, the headshot, the shot in the neck from the front,

the magic bullet, which is the most preposterous.

There's a lot of them.

There's a lot of these weird aspects to it.

And it's also the fact that Kennedy was very hated.

Also the fact that, you know, it's in Deely Plaza,

which is like, why would you ever drive someone through there in a convertible?

That's the president.

That's a very, you know, any president is...

You know, we think of JFK was the most loved president.

Right, by half the country. That's how it always is, folks.

Right.

There's always half the country that thinks you suck and half the country that loves you.

That's how it was with Clinton. That's how it was with Obama.

So it is with everybody.

Yeah. Now we don't tend to agree on those things.

Don't tire human people.

There was a lot of people that were very happy when he died, including Dulles.

So Dulles was fired by JFK.

And then was on the Warren Commission investigating JFK's assassination,

which is hilarious.

Yeah.

It's kind of crazy. Richard Nixon also in the Warren Commission.

The Warren Commission, there's a great book on it called "Best Evidence" by David Lichten.

And he was an accountant that was hired to do something with the Warren Commission,

something of some aspect of the Warren Commission.

So he decides to read the whole thing.

It's a huge amount of pages.

I forget how many pages are in the Warren Commission report.

I think it's at least 900 pages.

So he reads the whole thing. And after he comes to this conclusion,

there's so many inconsistencies, there's so many contradictions.

This doesn't make any sense.

They were trying to reach a conclusion.

So many of the witnesses that saw the assassination died in very weird deaths,

the statistical possibility or probability of all those people dying from murder or suicide,

car accidents, it's just too weird.

What about the UFO connection? Like that's the one I hear.

I don't know what they're like CIA ties and I don't know.

I don't know what's bullshit and what's not.

There was clearly, we had the technology for 20 years at that point,

but what does a president even know?

I don't know what they know. I don't know whether or not they would kill them for that.

That doesn't make any sense.

Do you know the Nixon story with Jackie Gleason?

No, I don't think so.

The story is that Jackie Gleason and Nixon were drinking one day.

And they were friends and Nixon was like, "I want to see a fucking UFO."

They get into playing and he took them to, was it right Patterson?

Jamie, do you remember?

I think it was somewhere on Florida, but I remember when we looked this up,

they said there's, he went somewhere. I'll look it up.

So anyway, supposedly sees this recovered craft and bodies that are in freezers.

So Jackie Gleason, one thing's true about this.

He became obsessed with UFOs. That is true.

And it'd be hard not to, after some, like the...

Yeah, there's definitely a catalyst.

A man, I mean, fucking dude, right now someone took me.

If Trump called me up and said, "I'm shit."

And all of a sudden, I'm standing in front of some craft that's made of this unknown alloy.

And especially some of the weirder stories where you have a craft that's like 40 feet wide

and you go inside of it, it's bigger than a football field.

That's wild.

So here it is.

Nixon arranged for him to visit Homestead Air Force Base in Florida.

Upon his arrival, arm guards took Gleason to a building at a remote location on the site.

There Gleason, who harbored an intense interest in UFOs, saw the bomb bodies of four alien beings,

two feet long with small bald heads and big ears.

He was told nothing about the circumstances of the recovery.

He swore his wife to secrecy, but after the divorce, Beverly freely discussed the story.

In the mid '80s, UFO, UFOologists, Larry Bryant sued the US government to get it to reveal its UFO secrets.

He tried without success to subpoena Gleason.

Wow, he wanted subpoena Gleason.

Yo, that's crazy.

I mean, he could just plead the fifth all the time.

Oh yeah, I was drunk.

I don't remember anything.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I mean, how would you know?

But Gleason built a house in upstate New York.

Oh, yeah, I heard about that.

That looks like a UFO.

Right.

Isn't it a perennial right now?

It is right now.

Yeah, we thought about buying it.

I did.

I looked out up one time.

I don't remember why, but it's kind of cool.

Yeah, it's kind of cool, but the problem is if we bought it, everybody would know that that's ours.

Yeah, true.

Like, oh, Joe Rogan's got the UFO house to go, and then they'd visit and fuck up my vacation.

It's pretty true.

There's always bound to happen.

I remember you know, that's the house.

Very gold house.

I mean, come on, man.

That's pretty sweet.

Fucking crazy.

Something happened.

He was, he was, there was a catalyst involved in his interest.

Well, I mean, if your friends with Nixon, and this is in the 1960s, and this, all this stuff is...

Yeah.

I saw an interview with Barry Goldwater where he was talking about...

That's fucking dope house, by the way.

He was talking about asking, asking some commander general about what's it right, Pat, and I guess he just custom out.

Barry Goldwater, he was like, never fucking asking that again.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

He custom out Barry Goldwater.

He was a, yeah, I don't think he was ever present.

Can't have date for person.

Right.

But yeah, no, there's people that don't want us to know.

The big thing going around now is that Dick Cheney was the ringleader of all of this, the deep state, the UFO secrets, the...

The gatekeepers.

Wow, he had to know.

Of course.

That guy, I don't know.

Kissinger too, probably, like the legacy programs.

Yeah.

These are legacy people.

Well, someone has got to talk, right?

But it's like, but at to what level?

And the idea, here's the really erroneous idea that a lot of people hold.

People can't keep a secret.

Of course they can.

Of course they can.

Especially when their life's been.

Yeah.

Of course they can.

Especially if, I mean, there are certain programs that if you disclose the existence of this program, it is considered treason.

And they're allowed to execute you for that.

So you have to take that into consideration.

I would keep a secret if that was the case.

Of course.

Then you have to take into consideration the immense amount of money.

And this was discussed really very comprehensively in the age of disclosure document.

They did a great job of highlighting the whole problem with the misappropriation of funds.

So someone had a lie to Congress.

If they have these back engineering programs, if they've been spending as much as a trillion dollars over the course of X amount of years.

Yeah, where's that money?

Where's that money?

And who lied and who benefited from it?

What military contractors were allowed to have this stuff to back engineer it?

What process has taken place to shield the American public from that?

And what profits have they made from that?

That it made them much more anti-competition against other military contractors?

It just didn't happen to keep the secret too.

It's not just you might get killed.

But there's a lot of profit potential in this.

And we don't want our competitors to have that.

Also, a lot of fraud, I'm sure.

Like with any no oversight at all in a shitload of money?

Like money.

Oh my god.

There's not a chance in hell that there wasn't some money that wouldn't take so far.

A human nature takes over and people are like, well, I could just keep some of that.

Yeah.

Nobody's watching the till.

Yeah, I mean, look, we're finding that with things just like Black Lives Matter.

It was massive fraud.

Like just like just non-profit organizations.

Oh, yeah.

I don't want to start shitting on NGOs or anything.

But that's a big reason why I don't give money.

I'll find smaller organizations doing thing on a local level.

Yeah, look at that stuff you can trust.

Yeah, absolutely.

You get big enough.

It's just that happens.

Yeah.

And of course, if you're talking trillions of dollars, Black money that nobody's traced.

And I mean, that was one of David Rush's arguments, too, is that these whistleblowers are exposing crimes,

you know, fraud, potential murder that happened to keep these secrets.

So, yeah, it's a complex.

It's a very nuanced situation that we will have to move past.

If we are going to have disclosure in some capacity, however that happens.

I mean, Amnesty's been talked about some people.

That was in the documentary.

That was the road out of this, which totally makes sense to me.

Like, what is really important?

The fraud has already taken place.

If people are prosecuted for the fraud, guess what?

If we don't release it, they'll never be prosecuted for the fraud anyway.

Yeah, and what's the alternative?

We wait until they die and then talk about it.

I would rather just give them Amnesty now and then let them die without these secrets going to their deathbed with them.

But just not only that.

If they're misappropriating funds, they're not just doing it 30 years ago.

They're doing it last week.

So, now the current people also have an incentive to not disclose.

Yeah.

Unless you have mass Amnesty, just say, listen, let's just forget about all this stuff.

Then the problem with that is all those people that are profiting off of it right now

and also funneling money into whatever NGOs they have and misappropriation of money.

What do we do with that IP, too?

Like the intellectual property that say Northrop Grumman or whoever has Boeing, like, do we share that now?

Do they have to give that up and spread it across the industry?

Yeah.

It's all weird, man.

It's very weird because there's been a few inventions that came about after Roswell.

A lot of people say, like, this does not make any sense.

Yeah, fiber optics is one.

Transistor is another one.

Yeah.

There's a lot of weirdness.

People say, oh, there's a direct.

And people say scientific research shows how they made it, yeah, but there's not.

If you go into it, it's like there's a giant leap that gets made.

That's real weird.

I mean, I'll take more leaps, man.

Like, honestly, these craft are being powered by something that's very, very energized, you know?

Yeah.

And if we could use that to, I mean, I pay a lot in utilities bills.

I was going to talk about climate change or some shit and then I made about myself and my utilities.

You could have your own zero point energy generator in your backyard.

Never have to worry about power again.

You could eat it like 90, you know?

How does my Christmas lights as I want?

Yeah.

Never worry about the grid.

The grid doesn't exist anymore.

Doesn't exist.

I mean, imagine that.

Yeah.

Infrastructure level.

And there's so many implications.

And if it's real.

If it's real.

If you think it's real.

Right.

You're convinced.

I'm convinced it is.

Yeah.

I mean, that makes sense.

There's so much energy trapped within the space between, you know?

That's what it is, even that zero degrees.

Try to explain energy.

If you can, try to explain the concept of zero point energy.

Man, that's beyond my pay grade.

Other than that, I know that it is infinitely times more energetic

than what you get when you split an atom or fuse atoms together, the nuclear force.

My understanding, again, very limited knowledge, is that even when you take a molecule particle

whatever, and you freeze it down to zero degrees, there's still energy inside of that.

And there's energy at a sub-quantum level that, if we could tap into that, it would provide infinite energy.

The downside is it would also make a bomb that is much, much more powerful than the biggest hydrogen bomb,

because you're releasing that energy in a way that's irresponsible.