[MUSIC]

[MUSIC]

>> Yeah, we're just talking about the mountain line that we have in the lobby and how insane that thing is.

So Adam, you shot that mountain line when?

>> I think it was about six or seven years ago, and you ate it.

And I ate some of it, you sent something to me.

It's really good, believe it or not, ladies and gentlemen.

>> You wouldn't think so, but it's incredible.

>> Everybody says it's like, the way they describe it is, I think Rinalo said this, a superior pork.

>> Yeah, yeah, it's like, I think of it as a cross between venison and chicken.

And then, and I did a quick on the barbecue, and I'm not a great cook.

But it was that tender and that tasty.

>> But the story behind the mountain line's nuts, like that was a murderous mountain line.

It was, I felt a bit funny about it at the start with because, like the dogs do all the hunting, right?

The dogs smell, the dogs find it.

They put it up in a tree, but the fervor I looked into it, I'm like, well, you need the tree because you want to sex it.

And you want to age it, you know, you want to make sure it's a line that's, you know, old.

And it has to be a male, to shoot it in Colorado, at least at the time you had to anyway.

So it was actually the perfect way to hunt.

But then seeing how destructive that individual line was at least.

I was telling Cam about this when we got here that it must have grabbed the cow, like a beef cow.

It must have grabbed it on the neck.

And the cow couldn't move, you know, but it was still fully alive internally.

And vocally, it was still alive.

And when we got there, the mountain line was like eating it from its rear end.

And it had been there for at least an hour or two because there was quite a lot of meat that had been eaten out from the cow's arse.

And kicking its hooves. Yeah. And it just, but the cow couldn't get up.

So it was, it was literally eating it while it was still alive.

And as the dogs are running down there, you could hear this cow off in the distance, just like screaming, like mowing flat out.

And you could tell something was wrong.

The dogs got there, the line ran off, we ended up calling the rancher in.

The rancher come out, put the cow out of its misery, still screaming on the ground right in front of me.

I was, hey, I was teed up, like, you know, like I don't like suffering like the next person.

So it was a very horrible moment.

So then it was like, now I'm into it, like now I'm in define in this line.

It's like a werewolf's loose in your town, you know?

How much did that cat weigh, by the way?

I held it up for size and I could hold it for maybe 30 seconds.

And I literally couldn't hold it up anymore.

And I was trying to show the size of, you know, how big that line was.

It looks like it's at least 150 pounds.

Yeah, it's giant.

So it's like 170.

170, that's what you think it would be on the, on the par.

Yes, as it were.

Yeah, life.

Yeah, that's a big animal.

We were standing out in front of it, like going to imagine if this thing jumped on you.

It's a living monster.

It is a monster.

It's a real monster.

And it's like, oh, they killed their animal.

They're prey first.

No, they don't just make sure it doesn't move anymore.

Yeah, just whatever's good for anything.

Apparently, don't just start eating it.

Whatever's good for eating it's on.

They were the only thing that has compassion in the wild.

You know, like putting it out of the misery, like the rancher did.

You know, that's one thing about hunters, ranchers.

We do appreciate life and death.

And there is a time where, hey, let's put it out of its misery.

But it's, yeah, it's, man is the only one who thinks about that.

An animal, they'll just start eating.

They could care less about, they don't even know about pain, really,

or being merciful or anything like that.

It's just what we do.

Yeah, I always say like the line in Africa,

like it strives a zebra across the back end.

And the zebra gets away.

And it's just got like blood pouring out of it.

And it's got this horrible wound

that it's going to have to live with.

That line has not lost any sleep over that ever.

It's like, it's not even a thought, you know?

It's just fascinating that all these different creatures

exist with us because we're so insulated.

For the most part, like most people

are so insulated living in cities, traveling on buses and planes

and cars and never, never seeing a thing like this in real life.

And you realize like at the same time where you're going to Starbucks

and you know, you're picking out the new iPhone,

there's a lion running full speed at a herd of zebras right now.

Like right now in the world, there's a lion full speed at the zebra.

And it's going to tackle it.

It's going to grab it by its face.

And all these animals exist to keep each other in check.

That's the real beauty of nature.

And you really see it when we saw that

we were out yesterday, Cam and I were.

We're hunting for pigs.

And we saw a feral cat make a pounce on a mouse.

Like we were in the perfect.

It was one of the coolest things because even though

like it's a kitty cat, like a little tiny kitty cat,

little, it was fluffy too.

It was kind of cute.

We watched a predator in the rare moment

when you see him executing a kill.

And when it was only a feral cat, but it was still.

We saw, we saw a little butt wiggle.

We saw that thing that they do.

They get thin and then up in the air.

We're like, that is cool.

It was so wild.

And that's going on multiple places throughout on our planet,

right now, as you said.

Everywhere.

Yeah, it's like if you could have like zoom in on a little camera,

all these little interactions, a predator prey,

or I mean, that's happening.

Well, if you could see it all at once.

Like if there was a camera on every single predator prey

and counter, simultaneous in the world,

and it was broadcast on a screen that was like 700 feet high,

you would think, oh my God, we're at war.

There's a war in the natural world.

It's a constant war.

It's a planet, right?

Just cats alone.

Have you ever seen the numbers of what feral cats alone,

just house cats kill?

It's literally in the billions in North America.

Billions every year.

Non-stop kill. But imagine how many rats there would be

if the cats weren't out there.

Yeah, under a sun.

Like it's all, there's a balance to it all there.

Oh my God, these cats are killing everything.

Right, imagine how many f***ing mice would be out there

if there weren't cats.

Yeah, that's true.

It's all balance.

Yeah, that Adam's point about his lion and Colorado,

it's so managed, that animal actually could have been killed off,

because it was killing livestock.

Yeah.

You know, but when you kill a lion and Colorado,

it's very detailed, very documented and tracked.

It's like you can only take, like in the unit,

I was hunting lion.

I didn't kill one, but you could only kill 35 in the year.

And every time a lion comes in, they catalog it, check it,

get it, you know, all the information in there.

And then that's one of the 35.

Once you reach 35 quota, you're done.

You're done, so yes.

Let's put this in perspective, because if that doesn't happen,

and by the way, all that money goes back to the state,

it goes to game wardens, it helps everybody, it helps conservation.

If you don't have that, you know what you have?

You have what's going on in Japan.

Where Japan is having massive brown bear attacks.

So just last year, they had a kill.

I think it was at least 1,000.

I think it was more than 1,000 bears last year.

And this year is projected to be even higher than last year.

So the bears at the fucking military has to go in.

And they're having a war on giant brown bears.

They're killing, I don't know, how many people already this year?

Oh, shit ton.

Yeah, shit ton.

They are.

So you put that into perplexity, our sponsor.

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Or they're not grizzly bears, but they're essentially brown bears.

They're brown bear.

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Dude, I've been hearing people in Montana and people in Wyoming

that have been saying we're seeing more brown bears

than ever before.

Guys are going on elk hunts and get it freaked out.

And like they have to de-list these fucking things.

Like they are totally fearless.

They've never been hunted.

So they have no fear of humans.

How many guys have you heard where the gun goes off

and the bear shows up after the gun goes off?

Because it knows that the elk is down or the moose is down.

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Oh yeah. I flew into Hikado, Japan had a period

where they would let foreigners hunt

and it had to be of a bow.

And I was chasing Seekestags over there.

And I had no idea they had a brown bear at all.

And I was going through these big, greedy area

like the reeds are up above your head.

And there was just a game trail going in there

like that the deer had been using.

And as I was going through there,

I could see that it was starting to open up

a little bit more like a flattened out section,

maybe like where the deer had been embedded.

And I got in there and there was a Seeker deer

just like the rib cage all chewed out.

And it was just a big muddy clearing

where this brown bear had got in there

and just rolled around with this carcass.

But the prints in the mud were like that.

I had no idea there was even bears there.

So what year is this?

Oh, it'll have to be 10 or 11 years ago now.

But Google's still around, right?

Yeah. You didn't check.

You didn't go, "Hey, what's in the area?"

I already went out of my spot.

I started messaging that outfit off.

And then like, dude, there's bears here.

Look at that bear.

Yeah. And then he started telling me

that it's some of the biggest brown bears there is.

Bro, that bear fucked up that guy's hood.

That's a big bear. Yeah.

But the police force, because I believe

there was an unarmed police force at the time,

they had an issue with a bear

where it had killed two hunters there.

And he had to go in and shoot this bear.

He had photos on a tractor.

And I don't do the gruesome photos,

but he's just flicking through his phone.

And the next photo is a guy with his face missing

from this brown bear attack.

And another photo of the bear,

when he went in the shoot, the bear,

the bear was in a stream holding the guy

down in the water, eating him in the water.

And it likes to, yeah, pretty gruesome.

So it's pretty full on, but up until that point,

I'd never even knew there was a brown bear in Japan.

Before you go someplace with a bow.

That makes sense.

To a cursory internet search.

You know, even if it's grayer, like, come on.

You guys have the internet, shut the fuck up.

Do you tell me some starling things going by?

They're way behind in Australia though.

We got that one.

They just got the internet.

This guy is a traveling bow hunter.

And he doesn't check to see if there's enormous monster

swimming in the same name of the line.

Oh, that's cute.

That's cute.

There's plenty of unknown out there.

You know, you don't need to add to it.

It's all disappear.

And all unknowns disappear because of the internet.

A little bit.

Another layer to that Japan story is,

the reason why they have to deploy the militaries,

'cause all the hunters are aging out.

So there was hunters there, but because hunting

is kind of like this dying thing for this next generation,

there's not enough hunters.

So they have to get the military involved.

Otherwise, it would be hunters like, you know,

you going over there and they've talked about like,

I mean, I know there's Americans

who would volunteer to do it,

but that's another part of it is this next generation,

just as a hunting.

- I have another question.

Jamie, put this into perplexity, please.

How many mountain lions were killed with depredation tags

in 2024 in California?

'Cause what I had read on a forum, so it has to be correct.

'Cause those guys were all experts.

- Oh yeah, they were valid.

- I had read that an equal number of mountain lions

had been killed with depredation tags by like experts,

with dogs, like the bringmen,

then if they'd given tags out.

So if they'd given tags out and let people mountain lion hunt,

you would have the exact same amount of mountain lions

that they had to kill.

And instead of that, you would have revenue.

- Yeah, money going.

- Instead of paying.

- Instead of the opposite.

- Right, instead of paying.

- And the collection of the middle ones.

- All right, California's not yet published

a full 2025 total, but the best available data

as of July 2025 shows at least 167 mountain lions

reported taken under depredation permits in 2020

and 166 in 2022 with annual totals of over 100

in recent years.

So every year they have to kill at least 100 mountain lions.

- Yeah. - Probably quite a bit more.

It looks like 67 more, 66 more.

- And I would say it's only went up since then.

- Yeah, well, the thing is they're doing nothing

to curb the population.

And this is the thing is people go,

"Oh, it's okay, let nature do its thing."

Now it doesn't do its thing, it kills your dog.

Okay, one of the things they found out in San Francisco

in the Bay Area was when they do shoot these mountain lions,

they've done an analysis of their diet.

It's 50% dogs and cats.

50% of their diet is eating people's pets.

So they're hunting people's pets.

That means you are, if you're a dog lover,

you're allowing a monster to eat your dog

because you think that's the right thing to do

and to be kind with nature, hey, me.

No, you have to hunt them.

You have to get them the fuck away from you.

I keep a healthy population of them.

And if you don't do that, it comes back to bite you in the dick.

- Here's one other search, Jamie.

Can you see how many mountain lions were taken in Oregon, legally?

'Cause that would be like, Oregon's of course,

this right north of California.

Let's compare the legal harvest in a state that hunt.

We can't use dogs, but you can kill them when you see them.

You can buy a tag in the season.

- Well, that's very difficult to kill 'em, right?

If you can use dogs.

- To do that, they have to have the season open all year

and they just hope enough are getting killed,

but then they still have to kill depredation.

And is that a situation where you buy like a mountain lion tag,

like just an extra tag and you just have it

just in case you run into one?

- So if you're out in the wilderness and you're hunting elk,

but you have a mountain lion tag.

- Yeah, that's it.

So we were hoping, if you see one,

basically I have a bear tag, lion tag, deer and elk.

- This is Oregon kills farm or cougars each year

than California, but those Oregon numbers can come mainly

from sport hunting and agency control,

not from depredation tags.

- Well, wait a minute, agency control is what we're looking at,

not depredation.

So what is the numbers here?

160.

- Reward the question.

- Yeah, let's reword the question and ask

how many were killed in California from agency control?

Put that in there.

How many mountain lions were killed in California

through agency control?

Because we were just looking at depredation tags,

which is like what a hunter or excuse me, a farmer gets.

- So it says in Oregon that we could kill 970,

but they never kill that many.

- Okay, they did not publish a queen state white tally

labeled specifically as agency control mountain line kills.

In current official tables,

group most lethal removals under depredation permits

rather than separate agency control category.

As a result, there's no single publicly available number

that states how many mountain lions were killed

through agency control alone.

Let's just put this in.

How many mountain lions were killed in California in 2024?

Just period.

Let's just ask that question.

- Yeah.

- I don't even know where we'd get this data.

- I don't know.

It have to be fishing game.

- 20?

- Hmm, that doesn't make any sense.

- Oh, so they're saying these figures

not include deaths from vehicles, but that's not true.

'Cause they just said earlier that it was 180 depredation incidents.

- And 222 depredation permits.

Out of those permits, 52 authorized lethal take

and 20 mountain lions were actually reported

as lethal taken on depredation permits.

That's weird.

This is totally different numbers than it was given us before.

So now it's only saying it was 52 authorized lethal ones.

- Yeah.

- Huh, I don't know.

- The holidays are in full swing

and so are the grinches out there

So they're saying it's only 20, that seems good.

- But that's for like a ranch owner to do the killing.

So they say, hey, this lion's been killing my calves,

480 times and 222 of those, they said,

okay, go ahead and kill the lion.

- Okay, right, so this is permits

that were released rather

than the agency doing the definition work.

- Right, so you would add this total

to the other number we have.

- Right, because the depredation thing too,

you got to think it's ranchers, right?

So these guys are all out in the middle of nowhere.

A lot of the depredations though that they might be listing

is what we were talking about with San Francisco

where they found that they're eating people's cats and dogs.

So maybe they get depredations,

it's not like, but you can't give it out

to the fucking homeowner.

- No, that would, so you only give those tags out

to ranchers, it seems like.

- Yeah, the people will have livestock this year.

- And the rest of the depredation is probably done by

some sort of a government guy.

- They would call it something other than depredation.

- Do you think he uses dogs?

How do you think they get them?

- Yeah, or snare.

Like an Oregon, Wayne has done this

where people, they're losing their goats,

their calves, something like sheep, something like that,

and then they'll let you snare it.

So you can go in there,

you take pictures of the animals that are killed,

and another snare in his, brutal.

- Yeah, or trap.

- Trap, basically trap.

- It's a foothold, yeah.

- In Texas, they treat them like coyotes.

- Yeah.

- He just whack them.

- Yeah, wow.

- I think that's the way to go,

because I think they're so hard to see,

they're so hard to find.

- Different politics.

- I've seen maybe two in all the hunting

that I've done, just naturally in the wild,

and you would have seen more,

but it's not a big number.

They're out there, but they're just so sneaky, right?

- Oh, they're so fucking sneaky.

We saw, I told you the story,

we saw the one in Utah with Colton.

- Yeah, a huge one.

- Like that one.

- It was like as big as yours.

It was fucking terrifying.

Inside of a car, 30 yards away,

and I'm shit in my pants.

- Yeah.

- I'm not even, yeah.

- And we're armed, and we have bows.

We have, you know, the difference between Oregon

and California and Texas, you know,

Texas has been on the shoot of my coyotes,

is that's politics, you know?

- Yeah.

- Of course, West Coast is liberal.

- Well, Utah changed it though.

Utah has it now like coyotes.

- Perfect.

- Yeah, that's how it should be.

- I think that has to be like management behind it.

I don't even know if you have to have a tag

in Utah anymore.

Let's find out it out.

Put that search in.

Do you need a tag to get a two hunt mountain line in Utah?

Maybe they just give out over the counter tags

and anybody wants them,

and they're still collecting revenue,

which is ideal.

That's the best way to do it.

- Yeah, and if the numbers are bright enough,

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- But Texas doesn't even do that.

They go, nah, we don't want to get involved.

You go ahead and shoot them.

And it's a fucking monster in your backyard.

- Yeah.

- The business coming from someone who loves them.

- Yeah.

- I love them.

I love them, they're amazing.

Okay, yes, you must have a valid Utah hunting

or combination hunting fishing license to hunt mountain lines,

but you do not need a separate cougar tag.

Okay, so it is like a coyote.

- Yeah, so it's year-round harvest for licensed hunters,

and you just have to get it checked in after you kill.

- Right, so all eight hours.

- Which is also smart.

- Yeah.

- 'Cause they want to know what it's been eating.

- That's how you do it.

- That's how you do it.

- That's how you do it.

Utah, way to go.

- Good job, Utah.

- That's the right way to do it.

And of course, you should have a hunting license.

I think you have to have one in Texas as well, don't have anything.

- This, talking about this, this.

- Actually, it's not true, right?

- What?

- No, I'm thinking that, no, I think in Texas,

you don't even need a hunting license to hunt exotics.

- No, not if they're on a private.

- Right, I think you could just go hunt 'em.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

- Right, okay.

- Talking about politics in different areas,

it reminds me of in BC, they outlawed grizzly hunting,

and just recently, maybe last week,

you know, a grizzly attacked a school group.

- Oh, I read about that, see that.

- That's another thing, so we're in the cities

who control a lot of the voting power of the,

that's a province, but states here,

is that the city's determinant and people living in the cities

don't know what the fuck's going on in the wilderness.

So they vote, I love lions, I love grizzly bear,

I love wolves, we need to have more of 'em.

Meanwhile, the people out in the mountains

are actually dealing with this shit.

And so Vancouver, you know, if we're talking BC,

specifically, Vancouver pretty much makes the decisions

for British Columbia, they said no more grizzly hunting,

and now it's just, you know, grizzly bear out of control.

- Did you ever meet my friend, Mike Hawkeridge?

- Yeah, we went to dinner at, after a fight once.

- That's right, one of the steak houses in Vegas, right?

Mike's great, and he, and Ben O'Brien,

took me on a moose hunt once,

and he was telling me that this was before

the grizzly bear band.

He was like, there's so many of 'em,

and he had a shoot one from six feet away,

one was breaking into a cabin,

and he had a shoot it from six feet away.

Tootie, like, they're terrifying up there.

They have so many of them, and they have wolves everywhere.

We stumbled on a wolf kill, we got there, you know,

it was probably a day old, I don't know,

but it was nothing but hair.

That was the thing that shocked me, it was a moose calf.

- Oh, okay.

- And there was nothing but hair.

That was what was weird.

It was like, I didn't anticipate seeing so much hair.

Like the moose hair was everywhere, just everywhere.

I thought it'd be like a dead animal,

but it was just basically bones,

and there was like a tiny bit of meat

on, you know, corners of the bones.

And hair, everywhere.

It was just like, they're like, pow!

Like they're like, pow, pow!

Just tearing into this moose capping, capping up hair.

I didn't see one when I was up there.

Although I think we did see one in the distance

when we were at John and Jen's place.

We saw one when we thought it was a bear,

or we thought it was a wolf run across the road.

I was either with you or I was with Ben.

- Yeah.

- I don't remember who it was,

but I've never seen a wolf in the wild.

- Right.

- Like absolute, like look at him.

- Oh yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah.

- They look at you in a certain way, I think.

- Oh, bro.

- Like one of the first trips I ever did to Canada

was I've been Northwest Territories.

And I actually thought it was Karibu coming down the river.

Like just the color of the wolves,

it was similar to a Karibu.

And then I worked out our wolves

and the guy that I was wearing,

he's like, oh, it's a pack of wolves

and I'm like, can I call him in?

- Oh God.

- And he--

- That 'em green tree, what's wrong with you?

- He's like, yeah, and then I got up against the tree

and I just started doing like a call that I'd do

for like a fox or a wild dog back in Australia.

And this whole pack come in.

- Like a wounded rabbit.

- You'd never seen him come in.

They were like up in our vision up there.

Yeah, like a rabbit called Distress Rabbit.

And the next minute,

I was just like, they were fully surrounding us

and just come in, it was pretty cool.

But I just remember they could fully say me at that point

and I was still just like looking for me.

I was like, yeah, that's it.

- Right, you ever heard Dudley's story?

- When Dudley and some guy that he was with in BC,

I think it was BC, pretty sure.

Or no, it was Alberta.

They killed a, I think it was an elk.

But when they killed it,

they killed it essentially on top of where the wolves den.

Like right there.

And wolves started circling around them

and the guide had like one round in his rifle.

And Dudley had like two arrows or three arrows left.

And they're surrounded by wolves

and Dudley shot two of them with a bow and arrow

and the guide shot one with a rifle.

They shot three wolves.

Three wolves.

He said there was like, they were surrounding.

He said it was the freakyest fucking thing

he's ever experienced.

- Yeah, it wouldn't have been a great feeling.

- He told the story on the podcast and it was just like,

fuck that man.

You only have two bullets, you fucking asshole.

Like what is wrong with you?

- Two bullets in one life.

- What do you, what the fuck are you doing man?

You know first what's up there?

- Killed a bull in New Mexico one year

and I killed it late in the afternoon.

So we did a pack out.

This is just going back to the mountain line story.

We took, we did a pack out with me,

went back in in the dark, we've head torches.

And as we're walking in, I seen a couple of eyes

or whatever and it was just like deer,

meal deer or something like that.

And then I'm like, oh there's another deer up in front of us.

And as we got closer, the eyes were too high.

And it's just like, no, that's not a deer.

And it was a mountain line up in the tree.

Like it was right up in the tree.

There was the kill there.

That line stayed in the tree where we grabbed more meat

and packed it out.

- You grabbed his meat?

- Yeah.

- The mountain line's meat?

- Well, it was his kill, it was my kill.

- And I was going back in for it

and just thinking it was a set of deer eyes

and as we're walking up, the eyes were like up in the tree.

And that's like, so I've only seen two.

That's one of them and it was in the dark.

And I swear if it was daylight,

I would have seen one of my holdings

while I was hunting for it.

- Did you see Cam's brother story on Instagram?

Oh my God.

Cam's brother was running late at night

in California at night in California.

And should we play it?

- Yeah.

- Did we ever play it on the show?

- I think we might have.

We might have.

- Did you?

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I know you mentioned it.

- Fucking terrifying.

- Yeah, yeah.

It's terrifying.

- I've never seen that in Australia by the way.

- What's your brother's name again?

- Taylor.

- Taylor.

- It's like T Spike.

- Yeah, yeah, Taylor.

So it's my stepdad and mom had two kids.

Taylor and Megan.

- Oh, okay.

- So those are my brothers, a brother and sister.

And then he does ultra's too.

- Yeah, he's actually really good.

- Yeah.

- He seemed like one of them dudes who had to get it in.

- Yeah, he's still here to get it in at night.

- He did a 300 mile race just last year.

He got, he's competing, trying to win the thing,

of course, but it got second.

- Wow.

- The Arizona monster, 300.

- That's insane.

- Oh my God.

So that's--

- That hurts my hips and my joints.

- That's the level he's at.

- 300 miles of, 300 kilometers.

- Miles.

- That makes it so much worse.

- You think it about kilometers.

- I thought you're an American now.

You can vert you.

We're trying to teach you inches, you know.

- I'm killing my lip for some reason.

- That's an American thing.

- You guys don't have inches.

- It's probably illegal over there.

- Probably.

- Yeah, they'll take it away.

- Government's gonna control it.

- Yeah, how's that working out?

- You can do that, but you have to wear a mask.

- Did you find Taylor's video?

- I think it's on his Instagram.

- Yeah, it is, it's definitely.

Did I send it to you at one point in time, maybe?

- I just found a video of you talking about it.

- Wow.

It's, unless he took it down, I don't think he took it down.

What is his Instagram handle?

- It's T-Spike, something like that.

T-Spike, something.

- Yeah, I'll find it at--

- T-Spike, 300 miles.

Coming in second place in 300 miles is,

but that's insane.

- Yeah.

- And meanwhile, how much difference

was there between him and number one?

- I think a couple hours probably.

- Oh God.

- Oh God.

- That's insane.

- But it took a--

- Oh God.

- I think he did it in 88 hours.

- That is nuts, man.

- That's a serious effort.

- Yeah, that is a serious effort.

- There's some freaks out there for sure.

- I'll do it one day.

- He's one of 'em.

- Are you gonna do it one day for real?

- Yeah.

- T-Spike, too.

- Couple more, this is the way as well will be good.

- What, Jamie?

- I don't know where the video is.

- Okay, I'll find it.

- I'll find it.

- Yeah, oh, it's me talking about it, that's for it.

- Oh, he must have really shared that or something.

- Yeah, here it is.

I found it right away.

- It's just his face when you see his face down at the camera.

It says Lion, oh, you got it?

Okay.

It says Lion Update.

Yeah, this is it.

Give me some volume.

- The restless night of this reoccurring dream

of these green eyes hot on my tail.

I was coming down the trail last night, just after dark,

and I see these green eyes off to the side of the trail.

I mean, right on the side of the trail,

where I thought was a coyote, I just kind of yelled.

And then when it stood up, I realized

it was a fucking mountain lion.

I took off rotting as hard as I could,

and I looked over my shoulder,

and it was right behind me.

I ran for pie, a hundred yards,

and realized it wasn't giving up,

and I turned around, and I kicked rocks,

and I jumped up and down,

and I screamed at the top of my lungs,

and the thing did not care.

I did that a few times to the point that,

at one point, I almost stopped.

I'm just gonna lay down here and die,

because I'm not gonna outrun this fucking thing.

Another time, it got really close to me,

and I thought I had no choice but to try to scare it,

and I turned, and I screamed, and I kicked rocks.

I mean, to the point, it was right there,

and I finally decided, well, you just gotta run,

run for your fucking life.

I've done some crazy shit in my life.

I've been pretty scared, but this, this was next level.

This was next level.

It terrified me.

You know, I think maybe if I had a gun,

I could've done something, pepper spray.

I don't think that it was so close

that I would've probably pepper sprayed myself.

So, I don't know, I was a half mile from the city

in Lake Forest, California.

I mean, like, straight up, I could hear dogs barking,

and at one point, I thought maybe that's what

kind of detoured it,

but this didn't care.

So, this morning, I'm gonna ride the bike.

Probably won't go back out there in the dark.

I did weigh her off of the Sheriff's Department

and fishing game, because there was other hikers

on the trail that were above me,

that what I had to have come down,

and I just don't know how other people would've responded.

Like I said, I just was scary shit.

I've been in the woods my whole life,

but this, this was next level.

It was terrifying, but I'm all good, back at it, right?

I guess if this only happens one time in your life,

I got it out of the way.

I'm a lucky fucker.

Have a good day, I'll keep at it.

- Doesn't work like that.

- Ooh.

- Oh, yeah.

- That is the consequences of letting monsters live

in your neighborhood, yeah, that's real.

And every all these wilderness loving people,

I guarantee you, you're not out there as much as that guy is.

I guarantee you, not out there as much as you are, or you are.

That's the difference between people

that really understand what we're talking about,

and people that are looking at this

from this knee jerk love and compassion

for nature perspective.

- Well, back to what Cam said,

it's like the majority of votes of people

that don't get in that environment.

- Yeah.

- You know, and it's not just about hunting,

that's for farmers anywhere as well.

There's people in the city that are making votes

for people that live in the country,

and the lifestyles completely different.

- And they don't understand what they're talking about,

especially the BC band.

Like we're gonna bend trophy hunting,

trophy hunting's bad.

But what about monster control?

Isn't that good?

I'm on fucking team people, okay?

I love animals, but I am on team people.

- Imagine if they knew how soft we were.

They don't have to spit out hair.

- No.

- Like the flesh is right here, it's soft.

It's so easy to get into it.

- 'Cause they usually go in at the stomach,

you know, or the ass, it's like our stomach.

How soft those are.

- Striped organs, yeah.

- That's right, right to the good stuff.

- Yeah, it's not good.

- And it's like new.

- Even I don't think people,

like even a dog can turn into,

like I killed a buck, you know,

before we went on that last hunt, I killed a buck.

And like for the treat, for the dog,

you cut off the nuts, give them the nuts.

So it's got hide on it.

It's got the, the buck's nuts, basically.

Dog takes off, it's just like ripping into it.

It's like delkacy, right?

That's just a normal dog.

So, a lion who's born and bred to kill,

I mean, that's just the level of what animals do.

- Your liver is a rib eye, and they have a knee in a week.

- You're like, oh, baby.

Look at that liver, it's right there.

- Yeah.

- And those, the dogs there, that deer camp,

you give them like a part of the,

I don't know, there's some skin.

It's not the flank steak,

but it's just some skin there that sometimes you cut off,

that goes over the stomach,

and run off, eat pounds and pounds of meat.

A regular dog, so a lion, yeah, they'll eat,

what they do is they just eat as much meat as they can,

and they just kind of lay around.

So that's the time to actually run from a lion

is after a big meal, you know what I mean?

'Cause their stomachs are full of meat.

Maybe that's why Taylor, maybe that lion that chased him

had just killed a deer and was full of protein,

but they still hunt, that's what they do.

That's their instinct, but sometimes you can time it right,

and maybe that saves your life.

- Yeah, geez, they don't, that's not a risk we should be taken.

- No, if you can avoid it, it's always better.

- It's like, they're so hard to find people don't understand.

You're not gonna put a dent in their population.

This is not like any other, it's not like deer.

You can deep populate a deer, like an environment of deer.

If you went crazy and hunted them all,

and you said, what's the eradicate all the deer?

Every hunter, you can shoot as many deer

as you want, just let's go do it right now.

You can get rid of all the deer.

You ain't ever doing that with cats.

- Yeah, they're too snakey.

- Not now, not now.

- Even in Australia, with buffalo,

you can fly and eliminate a lot of stuff.

Pigs here, deer, buffalo down there,

the water buffalo, but you're not doing

helicopter killing of lions.

- Yeah.

- You can do wolves, no wolves.

- You can do lower wolf populations, and they do.

They're doing some parts of the world.

They do an Alaska, right?

- Yeah.

- They do wolf kills from helicopters?

- Yeah, and yeah, lions are just tough,

but I didn't even realize this,

but Oregon, as we were looking at those numbers

that Jamie pulled up, Oregon, the goal is 970 lions a year,

but we never get to it.

- Right.

- So what that means is we're not meeting

our objective of lion kills.

That means there's more and more lions every year.

- Don't they factor that into the amount of tags

that they give though, that there's gonna be

a limited amount of success, so they'll give more tags

than they actually need to kill?

- For lions, or for lions to do that?

- Oh, yeah, I'm not sure how they do it.

It's supposed to be like a balance, you know what I mean,

if, but what happens is not enough lions are getting killed,

so there's too many lions, so that means

the lions are killing too many deer, no,

'cause the lion number is too high.

And that's what's kind of happening.

There's areas in Oregon that were great hunting at one time

that are terrible now.

- Well, here's a perfect example.

Where I used to live in California,

you guys have been in my house.

A lot of land, a lot of woods, a lot of like,

there's a lot of like wildlife out there.

Good luck finding a deer.

- Oh yeah.

- You might find two, three in a month, in a month.

I see deer every fucking day out here.

I see him every day, you know why?

No mountain lions, and you could shoot him.

California has a mountain lion problem.

Like it's a real problem.

The place, the home ranch, that place,

they had a camera out in front of one of their ponds

and they got 16 different mountain lions on that camera.

16.

- Yeah.

- And what, the people in LA,

they have no idea what's going on, but they're voting.

- Right.

- That's who controls what's--

- I started with their hops.

- Yeah, well, they're good people,

and I would have voted with them, right?

Okay, if I had never been hunting

and never been in the woods, I would have voted with them.

Maybe not, maybe not,

because I'm a little fucking skeptical of people's wisdom.

And I'd probably have looked into it a little bit

and thought about what it'd be like

to get eaten by a mountain lion and go,

what the fuck are we talking about?

- Right.

- Kill these goddamn things.

You fucking crazy?

Don't kill 'em all.

You don't have to kill 'em all.

They're gonna exist in the woods where they're supposed to be.

They're not supposed to be in Pasadena.

- Right.

- Okay, they're not supposed to be wandering around

the fucking Hollywood Hills.

Like that one that I have the big picture of?

- No.

- That one's crazy.

- That lion, that picture is insane.

The Hollywood sign behind him and he's wearing a collar.

That picture to me embodies

everything that's wrong with California.

You know where he is and he's in the neighborhood

where people live and you just put a collar on him?

- Yeah.

- So you could track him when he's fucking killing dogs?

Like, what are you saying?

You know how many, look at that photo.

- Yeah.

- That is a sick fucker.

- That is an amazing photo ever.

- Ever taken.

As soon as I saw that photo,

I'm like, oh my god, we have to buy a print.

- What do you think he's thinking?

- Order it from the photographer.

What is he thinking?

What am I going to kill next?

- What?

- And why is this fucking thing on my neck?

- He's the most tithiest.

- That's right above where Huberman used to live.

- Oh, it's dude, it's right there.

By the way, that's like,

we filmed fear factor out there, a punch attack.

- Yeah.

- Look at that fucker.

- Oh, I know.

- Oh my god, look at his face.

- I'm just wandering into that.

The thing is so big.

How sick of a photo is that?

- Amazing.

- Yeah.

- And it's all camera traps.

- Yeah.

- But here's what's so critical in, you know,

hunters, we can be our own worst enemies.

But part of what discussions like this

and talking about how it actually works

is so important.

It's not for other hunters.

It's for people who don't hunt who do vote.

You know, it's like, hey, let's just educate people

who don't understand.

It's not your fault you don't understand.

You haven't hunted your whole life.

That's okay.

But just listen to what we're saying.

And just say like, hey, when that vote comes up

and it's like, we're talking about, you know,

being able to hunt lions with dogs or black bear with bait.

Let's think about, hey, there's repercussions

if we don't allow this, you know?

- They don't just don't know what it is.

It sounds cruel.

Lions with dogs.

So I go, that's not even fair.

- You want to hunt it with a spare.

If you want to hunt it like we used to hunt them

hunt it with a spare.

- You're bare hands.

- No, bare hands.

That's what I see.

Kill with your bare hands.

- That's the dumbest argument.

That's the dumbest.

How do you think we got to the point

where we don't have fangs, you fucking dalt?

- And this, we got there, we evolved past that

because we figured out weapons, okay?

And that's why we can have cities.

- Never kill shit with our hands.

- At least they had a fucking wooden spear.

So what are you talking about bare hands?

- It's the dumbest fucking argument of all time.

- And the people that don't understand

that we would have never had civilization

if we didn't do this.

- Yeah, exactly.

- And the conversation doesn't come

from a one perspective from me.

I've got no desire to hunt a mountain lion again.

I don't, but as someone that's in the know

because I have before, you know,

and I wanted to educate myself prior to that hunt,

I was doing as much reading as I could

to find out, do I feel good about this?

Is, yeah, so it's not like I want them still

on the list to hunt because I want to go and do it again.

I don't have it desired to do that again myself,

but I do see that it's good management.

You know, instead of them being culled and not utilized,

you know, and it actually costing money, you know,

there's money going into conservation at that point

from the hunter, and the meat should allize, you know,

and as you mentioned in that case,

I gave that meat to a lot of people

because I wanted people to see it as a food source as well,

you know, because you do.

You sort of think of the mountain lion,

you're like, ugh, the meat was amazing.

Some of the most incredible meat I've ever had.

- Yeah, I mean, even if, so just say,

they didn't require you to take the meat

and you didn't, and you didn't eat it,

still they need to be killed.

They're solders to it just to make the deer and elk population

is to make a work I could have to work

because humans, people will always say,

well, mother nature will take care of itself.

It's like, no, humans have encroach on this habitat.

That's why we need to control this.

This isn't like the wide open west that it once was

where, yeah, maybe it would work out eventually.

It's not gonna work out.

- They were here first.

- Yeah.

- They were here first.

- They were part of the system, 100%.

- Adam, you know, he said he's killed one.

He doesn't plan on killing another.

I've never killed one.

I've never killed a lion in my entire life,

but I know it's important.

So it's not like on this big lion hunter

that I just have this passion for doing

and I want to kill as many as possible.

Never even killed one.

But I know that we have to kill him.

And in Colorado there, that's one thing you know,

you talk about sex and the animal up on the tree

'cause you can see what it is, male, female.

You don't, when I hunted him, I did hunt him.

I didn't kill, but you could kill any lion,

essentially if it didn't have, you know,

it couldn't be a female with cubs, or kittens,

but you look at him in the tree and you can decide,

oh, that's a female, probably not the best kill.

Let's kill an old male 'cause it's just,

that's how it just works better that way,

taking old males out, but you can do that.

And the same thing with baiting bear.

A bear comes in, a bear is really tough to tell

whether it's a bear or a sour, that's male or female

for those that don't know, but at a bait,

when you're looking very close, you can,

oh, that's an old male, that's the one I want to take.

So that's why, that's why there's,

it's not just random, like, I'm rifle hunting,

it's 400 yards away running, and you kill like a bear,

and it has cubs, you didn't realize it had cubs,

because the cubs are in a tree somewhere

that the sour left.

So that's where baiting is actually the best way

to manage these numbers.

And it might seem like, oh, you just throw out donuts,

and this and that, and the bear comes in.

I mean, yeah, you could turn them like that,

or you could say no, we're targeting the right animal

to make this work the best way it can.

- Well, people need to understand that,

the wildlife biologists and the numbers that they put up

and the rules that they apply,

especially the rational rules like that,

they exist because it's the only effective way

to hunt these things.

Like, you don't use dogs to hunt elk, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, because it doesn't seem right, right?

There's one effective way to get these mountain lions,

and you gotta tree 'em, if you don't have that option,

and you're bow hunting, you have to stumble upon one,

and they're gonna know you're coming forever

before you know they're there, forever.

Hundreds of yards away, they're gonna smell you,

they'll hear something, they'll turn and look at it,

they have amazing eyesight, you know?

Like, you're not finding them,

and if you wanna keep the populations in check,

there's like California's got a bear problem too,

and part of their bear problem is you can't use dogs anymore.

There was the only way they could really control

populations in a lot of these places.

- Dogs are baiting, hey, Jamie, I got another project.

So Cam Canada, you start, you spell with a K.

He, as we were talking about, he had a deer tag,

he's deer hunting, in Oregon, this what you do,

you just buy a bear and a lion tag just to have with you.

But he killed this giant lion, he was deer hunting,

this lion came up, sat on this rock 40 yards away,

and he's just like, I got a lion tag, perfect, boom.

Got, put a perfect arrow in this giant lion,

but look at this thing.

- And he's a big deer. - Oh yeah, there's a slob.

He played for the Steelers for like six years in the NFL.

And yeah, so that was just like a happen chance,

that's how you get him in Oregon,

because you can't use dogs, you can't do anything else.

So that lion just jumped up there

and he made a perfect shot on it.

- That's crazy. - I mean,

but look at that big thing.

- God. - Yeah, pretty nuts.

(laughing)

And like I said, Cam's like six, four, I don't know, two, three.

- Do you ever see one Derek Wolfkill?

- Yeah, that was a giant one, too. - Giant one.

So the Derek Wolf story is a great one, too,

because he took so much heat online about it.

People were so angry in him that he did that.

And it's just people that don't understand why it's necessary.

And first of all, if you know Derek Derrick,

so fucking legit Viking. - He's a legit Viking.

That guy's a giant human being.

So for him, to be, is there another picture

we see like the full, like, that's it.

There's the full, like, 180 pounds or something.

- Look at the size of that fucking thing.

- Yeah, so you, and I don't know what the numbers are,

but you think a lion kills,

especially a lion that big,

has to basically kill a deer every week, right?

So that's 365 deer a year, that thing is killed.

Or no, not this is a 52 deer a year.

(laughing)

- Imagine it as a deer a day. - Every day.

- No, but do you know the wolf thing?

- Possibly.

- They say lions are killing more deer now

than ever in places where there's wolves.

Because the wolf's got to line off the kill all the time.

They steal them all the time.

So the lions just give up and they go kill another one.

They can kill way easier than a deer kill.

They're way more effective killers.

- So think about, so say 50, or 50 deer a year for each lion.

How many lions are in Colorado?

- A lot.

A lot, you know, I mean, that's a lot of fucking deer

or elk calves or something's being killed.

- Yeah.

- Australia's got a real bad problem

with shark population now, and it's like,

and I'm taking it there because what's happening is

for like a really good eat and fish like a red emperor,

you'll only get like five red emperor

that's your quota for the day you can only catch five.

And what the sharks are doing now is you'll hook a red emperor

and the sharks will just take it off the line.

So you don't have a red emperor in the boat anymore,

but one's dead because the sharks got it.

So you keep fishing.

And then, so now the red emperor numbers are declining

because sharks, that's their favorite fish

to grab off a line.

You can catch a cod, you'll get it to the boat

because the sharks aren't going for it.

But if it's a red fish, the sharks are taking it constantly.

And then, so what's happened is

because there's been a ban on shark fishing,

shark numbers are got now to control.

So now red emperor numbers have plummeted

because the sharks are just eating them constantly.

- How many people on Australia can kill by sharks every year?

- There's been a few this year already.

Yeah, I actually just had my girlfriend out

a couple of, oh, maybe a month or two ago.

And I took her to this beautiful beach

and it was awesome.

Soon as we got there, there's dolphins jumping out of the water

and whatnot.

Anyway, we never went for a swim

just because of how the conditions were.

And a week later, a lady was taken from that beach

and her partner may have died as well.

I didn't follow up on the story,

but a partner got attacked as well,

but got out of the water.

And it's great why it's mostly on the east coast.

They seem to be running pretty rampant at the moment.

- Oh, Jack, kill them.

(laughing)

- It's the bleeding hearts that are making the votes.

- Four confirmed fetal shark attacks in 2025 so far

with some trackers listing four or five deaths

depending on how many incidents are classified.

And but think about how much less people

are out there in the water than in the brown.

- Oh yeah.

- That's the thing.

So people go, there's only four shark attacks a year.

Right, but how many people are in the water?

- Yeah, out of 500 people.

- Yeah, it's not a lot of people in the water swimming out there.

- We have a lot of white to go.

- Oh, good lord.

- It's an absolute monster of the ocean.

- Oh, yeah, isn't it weird to think that,

I mean, most society doesn't know anything

about the wild these days.

You know what I mean?

- Yeah, we're domesticated.

- Yeah, so it's, but even like, I don't know,

I always say that, I mean, we talked about this.

I'm pretty sure 'cause I talk about it all the time.

But like, I always think that society,

like this regular life here is fake.

It's like, it's not even real.

It's not even how humans are designed to live and survive.

Where the wild is actually where that's how,

that's what we're designed to do,

live in the mountains or hunt and survive, things like that.

And so, the fake life, I don't know,

it's just crazy to me to think about that.

- The fake life is what we think of as real life.

- Yeah, it's a real life and it's not real.

It's like, what we're doing, yeah, it's just not real life.

- Yeah, we're made to live in a society

that's not by mine or your design.

- Right.

- You know, and it's sort of like,

and that's, I always feel out of it in society

because I just feel like it's not for me.

But it is, it's here and we've got to live in it.

I do like going the way it's the world

and getting a good injection.

(laughing)

So, but I just want to go when I want to go.

- That's the way to do it.

Attack it from the outside.

Go in, go to a nice restaurant,

get back out to the country and just fucking relax.

It's better for people.

You ever see that, the old days of vice,

when vice used to do really cool stuff,

that vice guy to travel.

And there's this one guy who lives in the Arctic Circle.

And this dude is, he's been there since the 1970s.

He got a job up there and got permitted

where he's like grandfathered in

to allow to live in a small cabin up there.

Like the last guy there, he has like a permit on his door.

And this guy has been living up there ever since.

He saw 9/11 in a photograph like a year after it happened.

I had no idea what was going on.

Very smart guy, like intelligent, interesting guy,

and lives up there with his wife.

And all he does is hunt caribou and fish.

And he talks about it and he's like,

this is how people are supposed to live.

Like he's not like, he's a very intelligent guy.

So like when he's talking about,

he's talking it from like an internal programming.

Like this is like, this feeling that you get living like this

is how people are supposed to live.

And when you live like this, you're very fulfilled

and it feels normal.

Whereas most people don't feel normal.

Most people are depressed.

They have anxiety, they're worried about their career,

they're worried about all this stuff that is like human created.

They're worried about their social status,

whether they're ostracized from the neighborhood

or people like them anymore because they're political beliefs

or whatever the fuck it is.

There's none of that out there.

There's none of that because it's the way we were designed.

But if we want all the things that we enjoy,

like fucking Starlink and cell phones,

like you have to have this weird fake world

that we've created, the human created world.

But it's not conducive to like a healthy mindset

for most people, it's not normal.

And so all the, I have this thought about why exercise

is so important for people's mental health.

'Cause I think at the very least what it does is

it gives you like the physical exertion

that your body requires.

But I think your body requires a connection as well.

And that's what we're missing.

We're missing the natural world connection.

And you can get some of that out of the physical exercise.

You can get some of that out of like doing,

but your body's literally designed to have to move

and to complete tasks in order to survive.

And that task could be like that guy out there hunting caribou,

building a house, surviving, like making a homestead,

growing a garden, like this is a normal way we are.

But we're moving into this abnormal way along the way.

People are losing their fucking marbles.

Everyone's crazy.

No one knows what a woman is anymore.

Like everyone literally out of their fucking mind.

Out of their mind with the left wind, the democracy will f-

the right wind, we're all gonna be Nazis.

And it's just chaos.

And none of it is normal, none of it is natural.

And the reason why it's so incompatible with most people

is 'cause we're not designed for it.

- I feel it, I know Cam's the same,

but like it's just like time doing those things

that are usually in a quieter environment,

in a more natural environment.

Like I mentally feel better every time.

And then I almost feel myself slipping

when I come back to the city.

You know, and it's just like,

you sort of start letting your guard down.

You just slip back into it and you're like,

this is, I'm not enjoying this.

And then you go back out hunting for us or camping

or whatever it is.

And then I do, I feel revitalized.

I feel healthier mentally and physically, I feel healthier.

And then, by adding all the other things to it,

like you talk about exercise and yeah, it does touch on it.

And I think all those little things help,

but to really get out and fresh air

is the big one for me, where it's just, I do.

I feel more flow-state.

- I wonder if like, I'm sure a primitive man felt emotions

for sure, but do you think they felt depressed?

- No, I think, you know what I mean?

- I feel like that was too busy.

- I think it survived, eight.

- I think people, I think this is part of this fake society

is like, are you happy?

Are you happy?

It's like, happy, what the fuck is happy?

I wanna be useful out there.

I wanna do something.

I'm not happy, I'm nothing.

- Right, what is happy?

- I'm content, I'm content just being.

- Right, I feel content just being.

- When you're in the mountains carrying your bow,

glassing, looking, drinking, eating,

looking for a place to sleep, what is that?

That's what I want.

I don't know what it is, but that's like purpose.

I have a purpose, I'm trying to kill something.

That is that happy?

- Yeah, you're trying to find food.

- To me that feels, 'cause I don't know what happy is.

I see people, they laugh and they're fucking around.

Sometimes it's alcohol-induced, or drug-induced,

or it's like, is that supposed to be happy?

What is happy?

I don't know, I don't know what are we calling happy?

'Cause that's not like a little kid laughing at birthday party,

but are both, are they both happy?

- The fight no one saw coming.

'Cause there's a giant percentage of the people

that are listening to this right now

that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing

most of the time.

Most of the time, most of their day,

they're doing something they don't enjoy doing

because they have to do it in order to do the things

that they do enjoy.

So if you wanna go on vacation,

you gotta make enough money to afford the trip to Hawaii.

If you wanna do this, you gotta do that.

If you wanna do this, you gotta do that.

And so you're just working in some stupid cubicle,

punching keys, just planning all the fun stuff

you're gonna do with the money that you make

doing this thing you hate doing.

It's pretty nuts.

It is.

It's, I've never felt happy in that.

That's what I've said.

But having the do's something to get to somewhere,

sometimes you have to be unhappy.

That's true too.

And you're also a person to be commenting on this

because you're extreme.

You're never gonna be happy

'cause you're gonna continue to chase bigger and better.

- Yeah, that's what I say.

- Which is good, that's awesome.

- I don't know, I mean,

and I've mentioned this before,

I'm happiest when I'm suffering.

- Yeah.

- That's ridiculous.

- No, but like, doesn't it feel like Adam and I,

we just lived in each other, it's fucking crazy.

- No, because when I'm suffering,

it's because I'm doing something that matters to me.

- Right.

- Yeah, you like that.

And you know what's on the other side.

- I think you've also, yeah, you've sort of programmed

yourself to be like that too.

You know, this is like, similar to Goggins, right?

Goggins always wants people to know

that he wasn't always like this,

that he used to be fat and lazy.

And he shows pictures of himself at 300 pounds.

He always talks about it.

You know, it's like, this isn't,

I wasn't born like this.

Like I turn myself into this.

And I think one of the reasons

why you've been able to struggle so much

is that you've figured out a way to enjoy struggle.

And a lot of people avoid struggle at all costs.

They want the couch.

Oh, I want to relax.

It's cold out.

I don't want to get in that fucking cold plunger.

You crazy.

What's wrong with you, you know?

- I love struggle because you know what's on the other side.

- Yeah.

- Because it's done it.

- So it's like, once you've done that,

and I think that's where a lot of people struggle.

If they quit or they don't get to the other side,

then you don't know the reward on it.

- Well, you just said it's perfect.

That's why they struggle because they don't struggle.

It's like the thing you're avoiding

is causing you to have the exact same thing.

It's just you're getting a slow dose of that poison

and you never get out of it.

Whereas if you voluntarily struggle,

then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over.

But you're not doing that.

So you're just getting the same amount of struggle

in these weird little slow doses all day long.

All, so you're never getting like,

oh my god, I'm an agony, I can't breathe.

But if you did, then the rest of the day would be easy.

- Yeah.

- You're getting, oh my god, the world is closing in on me

and I don't know why I'm so freaked out

and I'm riddled with anxiety all day long

for no fucking reason.

I'm having a panic attack and there's nothing wrong.

That's what's going on.

You're getting your suffering in like little doses all day long

and it's driving you fucking crazy.

And that's why you get on SSRIs and that's why you do this

and that's why you do that and you join a cult.

And everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better.

Everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better.

And one of the ways to feel better

is voluntary struggling.

You've got to volunteer to put yourself

in stressful situations, difficult situations.

Do it on purpose.

If you do that, then the regular world is easier.

- Yeah, I think I'm always of course biased

towards hunting in the mountains,

but also think that men specifically,

where I grew up and in the environment I grew up,

hunters were respected and if you killed a big buck,

you're like, that meant something in a small town.

I was... - 'Cause it's very difficult to do.

- Right, and it's like for men respect

is such an important thing.

You know, it's like where we say like,

women need love, men need, if you have to choose,

men love doesn't mean shit really, but respect does.

And like, hunting was a way to earn respect from the community.

And that's why for men like when I, as hunters,

I think that's appealing for people who don't hunt

'cause they see that image and they're like,

I'm missing that because they see

that there's respect earned there.

And that's what men, whether they wanna admit it or not,

that's a big driving force, even at work.

Whatever job you have, you wanna be respected.

- Here's a perfect example.

That story you were telling me about shooting that bull

in the Oregon backcountry and terrible place to kill a bull,

and you called up that dude.

- Yeah.

- That guy, Cal Halliday.

- Which sounds like a fake name.

- We're talking about that.

- That guy's a slinger.

- Cal Halliday sounds like such a fake name.

It's a perfect badass name.

You call this dude and ask him to help you.

Dude drove through, he told him, okay,

he said, "I'll see you there at 8 a.m."

This guy's drives through the night, he shows up.

Like, how many hours did it take him to get there?

- It was four guys.

So he had to round up three other guys.

So he brought four of him and three guys.

And they live, how far away?

I mean, at least a couple hours, I think.

And so they had to get together, drive a couple hours,

get up on this old, like, logging road essentially

into the access point of the wilderness to the trailhead.

Pack in miles, right?

So this is like nine or 10 at night.

They said they'd be there at 8 in the morning.

So that's what it took.

Like, to get there and then miles back to this remote,

middle of the wilderness, hellhole area by 8 a.m.

So yeah, it was hours and hours and hours,

just to get there.

- And you can't time that.

You can't time that that he did.

- Talked about it.

- Yeah.

- But the way you talked about him,

that's whatever man wants.

- Yeah.

- Like that was a fucking man.

- Yes.

- But he earned it too.

You know, that's, and you're talking about,

you know, respect so important,

but you do have to earn respect.

- Right, right.

- And that went so, in that moment,

so there was me, Wayne, Tanner, my son,

James, my camera guy, Gideon,

and then he brought four guys.

So we had eight guys.

In that moment, there's not eight other men

I would rather have, or seven other men

besides me that I'd rather have there.

Because those to do that, it's special.

That's not everybody can do that shit.

But those guys, that was their purpose.

They could probably never be quote, "happier"

than in that moment, elk meat on our back,

miles to get to the trail head out.

And--

- Hundreds of pounds of meat.

- Yeah, a 300 pounds of meat.

So we waited at the butcher when I took the,

to get processed, 300 pounds of bone.meat.

That's not a bone on there.

So--

- Not including your camp, not including everything.

So you can act your boat.

- And the head, I took the head out.

So 300 pounds of meat plus everything else that we had.

But eight of us packed it out and it was the greatest day.

I can remember probably this season, you know?

I mean, it was, that was real.

That's what I say, that's real.

All this other shit, I don't know what this is.

But that was fucking real.

I killed a bull.

We have to get it out to take care of this meat.

Here's some badass mountain men who can help me.

Does it get any better?

- No.

- Yeah, I think I've known you for 13 or 14 years now.

And you've always been like that, oh.

You've never changed in that sense.

Like those things are important to you.

Those things are meaningful to you.

All right, it's incredible.

- No, it's, thank you.

But yeah, it's, yeah, I mean, that's all that fucking matters.

- Yeah, it's, most people never experience that.

That's what's wrong.

What's wrong is most people never experience

that, that insane, challenging experience

where your characters tested, your wills tested,

your commitment is tested.

- Just think.

So the video on this hunt came out last night

and it's called the bow hunter.

But there's a moment there after we had called,

after we'd got my bolted process.

So at that time, it was just me, Wayne, Tanner and James.

And we're just sitting there.

We had our tent set up.

The bolt, the meat's all hanging up.

Middle of the night, sitting there talking.

Eating, we're eating peak meals.

I'm like, why are you eating peak meals when you're happy?

- That's your happy meal there.

We didn't have a fire, but the meat was processed.

It wasn't time to eat or like to break down the bowl,

but that would have been great.

Tender ones over a fire would have been amazing.

We just didn't do it.

But the point is, in that moment,

there's no other place on earth, no other time in my life

that I would rather be.

That is, that was the pinnacle of life for me.

- That's a normal, natural experience for primitive man.

- Yes.

- That's what it is.

And it's how we stayed alive.

And the way I describe it to people,

there's a feeling, most people have caught a fish.

There's a feeling when someone catches a fish like,

even a child, when I took my daughter bass fishing,

she was like, six, I think she caught a bunch of bass.

And the feeling that she got when she hooked it,

like her eyes light up, it is built in us.

It's inside of us.

But catching a fish, bow hunting,

and in the mountains, killing an animal,

cooking it over a fire with your boys,

is that times a thousand.

It's a crazy built-in, we did what we have to do.

And we're looking forward to doing it again.

So that the intense experience, the difficulty, all of it,

you're sitting there, relax, you're eating,

and you have no doubt, you can't wait to do that again.

You're not like, man, I don't want to do this again.

This is nuts, you're like, yeah, I'm fucking tired,

but that was awesome. - Yeah, that was awesome.

You take the pack off like, whoa, dude.

You're sitting there by the fire like,

holy shit, you're drenched in sweat, your legs are gone.

Everybody's around smiling, like we fucking did it.

We did it.

- I just don't know how, I mean,

you hope the films can show that,

but gives you a peek to feel it. - Oh, yeah.

- I wish everybody could feel it, so they'd know.

It'll never happen, but it's life changing.

- Do you remember Israel Adesonia's speech

after he knocked out Pereira?

- Yes.

- What did he say?

He goes, I wish, he goes, people of the world.

I would play it, let's play it,

because it's fucking amazing. - Yeah, that's unreal.

- It's fucking amazing.

So this is Alex Pereira.

This is a guy that had beaten him three times.

- Three times, yeah.

He knocked him out in Kikboxing, knocked him out in MMA,

and then finally he knocked him out.

- Yeah.

- And this was like, everybody was terrified of him

taking this rematch.

Pereira can't be stopped, Pereira is a destroyer.

He's the scariest guy ever, but he asked me

to give him the microphone.

- New!

- Look at that.

(crowd cheering)

(crowd cheering)

- What a human.

(crowd cheering)

- Yeah, I love Style Bender.

- Oh, he's the best.

- Holy shit, he's the best.

- Yes sir.

- Hey, shut, shut, listen up, I wanna say something.

People, earth, I need to say something, listen to me.

I hope every one of you behind your screens

on this arena can feel this level of happiness

just one time in your life.

I hope all of you can feel how happy I am,

just one time in your life.

But guess what, you never feel this level of happiness

if you don't go for something in your own life

when they knock you down, when they try to (beep) on you,

when they talk about you, and they try to put their foot

on your neck, if you stay down, you will never ever

get that result, fortify your mind

and feel this level of happiness as you rise.

One time in your life, but I'm blessed

to be able to feel this (beep) again

and again and again and again and again.

(crowd laughing)

- That's so cool.

- Post-Fight speech of all time.

- You know what I love too, is like even in that moment,

like there's a little bit of blood

starting to trickle out of his nose, you know what I mean,

'cause he looks really good for just fighting,

but it's like there's little, you know, the sweat,

the blood trickling.

Oh, man, he's getting hit, man, he's getting hit.

- And his left leg was already destroyed.

- He didn't take many of those.

- No, he was talking to me about it afterwards,

he's like that motherfucker got me again.

I was thinking that before that,

he got my fucking leg again,

'cause that was a part of the problem with the first fight.

- Yeah.

- First had my May fight.

- His left leg was destroyed.

He couldn't move his left leg.

So even though he's like, Bob, and he's like,

I was okay, he goes, but I couldn't get out of there.

He goes, I couldn't move my fucking leg, man.

He goes, I was getting hit, but I was still there.

I was moving, like he was still moving around,

but he couldn't go away.

Like his leg was destroyed.

And that's what people don't think about when he,

like, especially those goddamn calf kicks.

- Yeah, he probably knew after the first one.

He was like, fuck, he got me again.

He destroys people's legs and then you're sitting duck

in front of the scariest puncher in the history of the division.

- Hands of stone then.

- Oh my God, he's fucking terrifying.

And for him to catch him with that perfect right hand,

off the cage like that,

oh my God, and then shoot the arrows into him.

He was like, greatest, the most fight celebration,

greatest post fight to be of all time, of all time.

Does that even a second place?

That really, except Rosinama Unis,

that one time when she was saying, I'm the best.

- Yeah, yeah, sure, that was pretty powerful.

- That was pretty powerful too.

- Jamie, could you find that tent scene

at the end of that video?

So, but here's what I was curious about,

is, oh, he did find it.

Yeah, like right here.

So, the difference between Israel's happiness

and this happiness.

- I'll do anything you want to do.

But, you know, you go until you're just sick of the weight

and you get it under the tree of the shade

and you get all kind of energized, come back,

drink some water, grab another.

And then mentally, you're not coming back to here.

- Right.

- I mean, you get it all across the creek and that flat.

- I mean, it doesn't get any more in the bottom.

(laughing)

- That was a packout,

but I wouldn't want it any other way.

Wayne, he had a horse packer set up

and then I had also talked to Cal Halliday

and when I was in there by myself on an opening weekend,

he said, hey, if you kill a bull in here by yourself,

he goes, let me know, send me a text or something.

I'll have four or five guys here within five hours

to help pack.

So, no, it wasn't an opening weekend,

but I'm like, I told Wayne that and I said,

he goes, who do you want to get hold of?

Do you want to get to hold a cow

or do you want to get hold of the horse packer?

And I'm like, I think I'd rather have cow

with some other bad ass mountain guys

and just share this packout with them.

- Yeah, but it's over if we go less of a jungle too.

- So these guys right here.

- But there he is.

- You don't want any other people

and Tanner's got so much weight on the form.

- Cal, they got up, I don't know what time,

three in the morning made it all the way there.

They said they'd be there at 8 a.m.

They were down at my bullet, 801.

And I don't, I mean, this is miles and miles and miles,

just, you know, just studs.

And so, yeah, it's like, I'll never forget that.

I'll never forget the whole, obviously the whole hunt,

but that morning was a special one.

Cal, Eric, Keith, and Ryan.

- Brought it for massive.

- Yeah, so thankful for that, baby.

- That bullet is massive.

- So it's like, here's it,

but that's a juxtaposition is, to me,

that was my Israel at Asania moment

about I will never be happier.

But look how different those moments are.

One's in front of a huge crowd,

millions of people watching,

being, you know, getting all that attention

from all those people.

And then I guarantee just as happier, happier right there.

Isn't that crazy?

- It is crazy.

- Yeah, that's your thing, you know, fan your thing.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- I always talk about that, like, people just trying to find

- What's your thing? - Yeah.

My thing's the outdoors and bound.

- So Israel's thing is fighting.

So for him, that's the pinnacle.

For us, whatever your thing is, get to the pinnacle, right?

That's the lesson.

- Find happiness in that.

- Do you think-- - Whatever it is.

Whatever it is for you.

- That you talking about your daughter catching that fish,

and it's like this primal instinct inside of her

that just flares up, that fighters have that same feeling.

Like, it's a primal feeling.

- Oh, 100%, yeah.

- It's a little more conflicted, Doug, depending upon

how bad you hurt your opponent.

When you hurt him really bad, it's a very conflicting moment

'cause you know that could've been you.

Some guys don't get that feeling.

Some guys, they did that good fuck him,

but a lot of guys, it's like, woof.

There's some guys that knock a guy out real bad,

and then they almost want to retire afterwards.

They're just like, I don't want to do that

to anybody anymore, you know?

Especially guys that have killed guys.

Like Ray Mancini, when he killed Dukku Kim,

I don't think he was ever the same again.

There's a few guys like that in history

that have had boxing matches where they killed a guy,

and then they were kind of never the same after that.

- Dude, that's some scary shit.

'Cause you realize this is what you're doing, you know?

- Yeah, mentality.

- This could lead to that happening to you,

and you think about your kids watching on TV and crying

or even worse there.

While you're getting beat up, I always freak out

when guys bring the kids, I'm like, oh man.

Bring a kid to a fight, you know?

- Yeah.

- I've seen guys getting knocked out in front of their kids,

and it's particularly devastating.

Particularly when you really like the guy.

- Mm-hmm.

- It's rough.

It's a rough way to make a living.

But those guys, when they get that belt strapped around 'em,

when their hands get raised in the whole audience,

screams and cheers, it's like, whoa, that's a special moment.

- It's a special moment that very few people

ever get to experience.

- Unless they kill a bull in their wilderness.

- I don't even know if it's the same.

It's a different kind of happiness.

I think yours is more sustained, yours lasts longer.

- That's what I say.

- I don't know, like Israel said he was happy.

Is that, I guess that's what it is.

- But you know what the reality is,

after the happiness dies off for a couple of days,

then you start thinking about your next fight,

and you immediately start getting that anxiety again.

- I think that's a good drive in life though, right?

'Cause you don't just do that elk hunt and be like,

I'm done now, you know, it's like not what's the next one.

Yeah, and it's like that constant pursuit.

- And it's also like constantly recognizing that

you're always going to be at least trying to get better.

That's, you're always trying to get better.

Anything that's gonna give you like real happiness

is going to be very difficult

because you're not really going to ever be able to master it.

Whatever it is.

It's like that's where it is, the real,

it's in the pursuit of it.

And along the way, recognizing that you consistently

keep getting better, but it's like there's a dream

that you're chasing that you're never gonna get to.

You never gonna get to bo-hunting perfection.

It doesn't exist.

You can get really close.

You've gotten really, really close.

But we're human.

And it's the wild.

And there's all sorts of weird variables that happen.

There's branches and sticks and wind and this and that.

And it's impossible to be perfect.

- Yeah.

- And that's part of the magic of it.

Part of the magic of it is that when you're in the moment

and it's all happening, it's all so open ended.

Like any result can take place.

You really do not know how this is all gonna go down.

You haven't seen it all play out.

And you might have imagined how it's gonna play out.

But it's gonna play out in unique situations.

Some of them will be similar.

Some of them will be completely different.

- Yeah.

- And you've got to figure it out.

Like you were telling me that crazy story

that I was talking to you about the podcast

where you're shooting down at this bowl

like from like a cliff.

- Yeah.

- Straight down.

- Yeah, San Carlos this year was a,

so I arranged the bowl is a huge cliff.

And what I thought is I'd get up there

and I'd be able to see the flat.

And there were some bowls down.

There's a tough year in Arizona's the drought.

But from that cliff I thought that'd be a great vantage point

to see where these bowls weren't playing a stock.

So get way up there.

Actually they're sheep right above us too.

It's like crazy, rugged country.

But get it there on that cliff.

And I'm kinda looking out over the expanse there.

And then I look straight down below me.

There's this big bowl and I straight down.

And I'm like, it's like if you're honey mule deer,

you know, they always bet up against a cliff.

'Cause so their backs protected,

the winds coming up, they can monitor

the down below them with their nose.

They know nothing's coming from the back.

That's how mule deer bed to survive.

Well, this bowl had done that same thing.

And it was, it had just stood up from the base of the cliff.

And I look down, I arrange it 42 yards,

which people who know if the range finders

telling you to shoot for 42,

that means straight down.

That means it's probably close to 60 yards.

You know, because the range finder does it calculation.

If you shoot flat, that's the gravity effects one thing.

If you shoot straight down, gravity has less effect.

So it's saying, even though it's further,

you would shoot for less distance is how that works.

So it told me to shoot for 42.

That means it's probably 60 straight down.

And that's a long shot with a bow.

And then I had to shooting straight down.

I thought that I was like gonna go straight through a spine.

'Cause I was straight above 'em.

I'm like, well, when you come right behind the shoulders,

straight through a spine into his vitals.

I thought that should do it.

So I hit that bowl like about,

I would say an inch off the spine.

I show it, there's a video of it on that.

The video we just watched for people who were interested.

But about an inch off that spine into his chest

and the bowl went about 100 yards.

But yeah, it was, I've never done a shot like that before

in my life.

You think about different scenarios.

I had never even thought about one like that on a bowl

at that distance, at that angle.

So that is even, so where?

Yeah, it's back.

This is the, that's the Winahawk bowl.

But it's back, Jamie, about,

I was talking about getting ready for this hunt.

And it shows like a few clips of the bowl I killed in Colorado

with an Arizona bowl.

Then I did another hunt in Utah.

And I killed a bowl there to get prepared

for the, the Oregon hunt.

But yeah, it was just, I never even really thought

that that shot would be a potential one.

The Oregon hunt is crazy because of the wilderness.

It's so dense.

Yes, it's, it's, it's like a rain for us.

It's like Jurassic Park.

And that's in Eastern Oregon.

That's the dry part of the state.

That's crazy.

But it's such, it's such a hole there.

So much water moisture down there that it turned

into like Jurassic Park without bowl coming in, bugling.

And it was like a dinosaur.

I would say, but there's nothing that matches that.

That aspect of alcunding makes it so much cooler.

It's the sound they make when they're coming in.

And it's just like all of your fucking pores pop up.

It's like you get goose bumps all over your body.

You back your neck, the hair stands up.

It's like the scream is like, whoa.

It's so, it is my favorite sound.

It's amazing.

It's my favorite.

When you hear, when you're close,

and there's an elk screaming through the woods

and he's coming close towards you,

that's the thrill of that is like nothing else.

Like nothing else.

- No.

- And people who haven't heard it, they hear that.

And they're like, what the fuck is that?

- Right, they don't demon.

- It's weird that there's an animal on this planet

that makes that noise.

If we hadn't done this our whole lives,

and we heard that would be like, what is that?

- What is going on?

If you had done what Adam did in Japan and not research,

like what kind of animals are in the area

when you were camping out and you heard that scream?

You'd be like, I'm like, we're surrounded by demons.

- Now, I've had people tell me stories,

like there's something really weird in the woods there.

And then, but you find out it's like,

fellow deer or red deer living in there,

and it's like just a breeding cage,

and they're just roaring and just people like,

what the fuck is that?

- It's like, actually, it's just a deer.

- Stag have the craziest roar.

- It's such a weird thing.

- Elkar actually make a real pussy sound.

- Compared to it.

- Yeah, for this song.

- Well, like an African lion,

'cause I heard those when I was hunting over there,

like they're by the river.

And so, like an African lion in the middle of the night,

they're like, oh my God.

It just like reverberates through the whatever we were,

jopples.

- If there's anything that lights up your DNA,

the sound of a lion must just chill your fucking cells.

- Nothing like that either.

- Nothing like that either.

- But, you know, here's an exciting thing.

So, for people listening to that,

maybe didn't grow up hunting.

What, we were talking about this in the green room last night

when we were getting high off all those.

- We weren't smoking, but we got high.

- It's, what's crazy is nowadays, you know,

we're 58, you're 45, right?

But, we're just getting even better physically.

So, you say you can't master bow hunting, right?

Because you only had a certain window,

like normally how hunting works is,

you're young and strong, all the endurance in the world,

but you don't know shit, right?

You don't have the experience.

So, by the time you get the experience

in your old and broke down,

you can't take advantage of the experience.

So, you have to have a wisdom.

The wisdom you gained when you're young,

you utilize when you're old to kill.

Well, now, we can gain all that experience in wisdom,

like I've been, I've been, you know,

hunting for 40 some years,

and I'm also at the best I've ever been physically.

You marry those two up, look out.

- That's what synances that didn't exist before.

- Right, so like we go to ways to well today

and get stem cell and get, you know,

the IV treatments and get everything else

to build a operate at our absolute prime

at 58 years old with 40 years of experience.

- Yeah.

- That's tough.

That's, you're gonna have success if you do it right.

So, yeah, not everybody's gonna be in that situation

where they grew up hunting like me,

but you even think about jelly roll at 41 years old.

So, he just started bow hunting.

You started bow hunting in your 40s,

and now you've been doing it for, you know, 15 years,

and you're getting better.

So, there's hope for even people 40, 50 or whatever,

with this new science and treatment and supplements

and things like that, you can still be very active

and still take on new intents and devers

like bow hunting or hunting, just hunting in general,

and have success, and it might change your entire life.

Like jelly roll is a different fucking person.

- Yeah.

- And two years, he's a different person.

A different human.

- Totally human.

- That should be exciting for people listening.

- Yeah.

- They should learn that you could do it too.

And it's that, and having more energy,

like say if you're not into bow hunting,

you say if you're not, you know, like,

I don't wanna be a marathon runner, whatever it is.

If your body is healthier, whatever the thing you do,

- You're gonna be better.

- You don't have more energy.

- You're gonna be better at it.

- You're gonna be better at it.

You're gonna have, like, why do people like,

cognitively decline when they get older?

Well, big part of it is you're declining overall.

Everything's declining.

Everything about you is declining.

Of course, your brain is declining as well.

Like, your entire existence is fading.

You're, but the more you can have energy,

the more you have vitality, the more you can do what,

I don't care if you play chess,

whatever the fuck it is that you like to do, paint,

whatever it is you like to do, the more energy you have,

the more energy you'll be able to apply

to that thing you do.

- The more enjoyable it is,

the better quality of life, the happier you are.

- Including all the other stuff, just being with your family,

you'll have more energy to do stuff.

You'll have more life.

You'll have more life energy.

- Here's one mindset I've tried to take on,

with, especially with hunting,

'cause that's all I really fucking care about,

is improving and learning on every time.

And I could even think about like,

I was telling somebody, I don't know who,

but on every, I try to learn something on every stock.

And when I think about, when you kill the stable

the other day, so we're there.

And you have to weigh out so many things on a stock,

when you're getting ready to kill an animal

or potentially kill an animal.

But we're thinking about, okay, we have the wind,

the wind is, that's the biggest thing with balancing.

So I knew where the wind was,

but then also it's like, well, do we go, stay in the shade,

so the sun wouldn't blind you as it was going down.

But if we stay in the shade,

we're not perfectly downwind.

So I'm like, well, the sun's gonna set,

the winds change, 'cause thermals change.

If we're to the side in the shade,

so you don't have to deal with the sun,

then when that wind becomes unstable,

it's more likely to smell us.

So we should be all the way downwind,

but that means we're gonna have to shoot

before the sun gets too low towards not blinding you.

To get to the side, then you have to figure out

what's a path to get there

to where we're not making noise for the animal to hear.

Well, it's straight to the,

I don't know if you remember that tree,

and I said, straight to that tree.

And from that tree, then I was thinking,

you should have a lane, 'cause there was brush all around,

but it looked to me like, from that tree,

you would have a lane to shoot at 28 yards,

but you're still factoring all these, the wind, the sun,

the everything else, what's the animal gonna do?

It's just so fascinating to think about,

but I know some people hunt,

and I don't think they think about it in those details,

you know what I mean?

They're just kinda like, oh, there's an animal,

what do I do?

But like, that's not how you mastered the moment.

You mastered the moment, and I said this a lot of times, too,

on many of these hunts, I was telling Jelly Roll this,

I was like, everything matters.

Everything.

The little thing matters.

The big things, obviously matter.

But everything matters.

And that's what hunting teaches us.

And in life, you can make it through regular life

on this fake world that I keep talking about,

by ignoring a lot of things, not on a hunt.

- Yeah, we had to think about a lot of things on that stalk.

- On a hunt, everything matters.

- One of the big ones that we had to think about

was as that sun was dropping.

So we were standing there waiting for this, able to get up.

It had bedded, and it didn't know we were there,

and we creeped into the spot we were.

- Slowly, got it.

- So do you remember that technique?

- Yeah. - Remember what I said?

If you move slow enough, they won't pick it up.

- Right, because they look for movement.

- So we were moving like, you know,

like an inch every 30 seconds.

We were like barely moving.

- 'Cause what I've found is animals,

I've been in the wide open on a caribou, went right at it,

but so slow, it was just like, that can't be anything.

Nothing does that.

- I saw it was movement.

- No, but steady and slow, and they just won't spook.

- Yeah, and we had to figure out where to stand,

and then when we got, as we were standing there,

we were standing there for quite a while.

I realized, oh, this sun is going to be impossible,

'cause it's slowly lowering in the sky,

and it's literally above this table's head now.

And I'm like, okay, we don't get this thing to stand up.

I'm not going to be able to see it,

'cause I had my hat on, right?

So I blocked myself from the hat,

and then I was trying to train my eyes

to just look at it through, you know,

just like the haze of the sun.

I was like, this is going to be a real problem.

So we decided, let's get 'em to stand up.

So Cam took his arrow out of his quiver

and started tapping on this branch,

and then started like moving towards it.

And Sable or Beasts, bro?

- Yeah.

- First of all, those motherfuckers,

they killed lions occasionally.

Like they get attacked and they're fierce.

So it wasn't exactly easy to spook.

- Right.

- So you had to kind of like move towards a little bit,

and then it started grunting at you.

Like, fuck off, fuck off, bitch.

- Fuck off, bitch.

- And then finally it stood up, and when it stood up,

we got 'em, but it was a shot where I was like,

I got to do this real soon, because otherwise,

I'm not going to be able to see.

Fortunately I could, and I can get the pin

right where it needed to be, but it was like,

I was telling you afterwards, I was like,

I avoid shooting into the sun.

When I have my targets, I always put a target in the other way,

so I'm like, I can't do that anymore.

Now I have to start shooting into the sun sometimes.

- Practice it all.

- You got to get that feeling,

because that had happened also on a hunt with Tom Land.

We were up in Utah, and this bull is a nice bull.

It was about 60 yards, and it was coming across this ridge.

The sun was right in my eyes.

And he's like, why didn't you shoot?

I was like, I just couldn't.

It was too blurry.

It was too, the sun was right fucking there.

And I remember thinking that at that time,

this was years ago, thinking at that time,

I needed to shoot into the sun, and I never did.

I never did.

- But it was like, it won't come up.

I just won't take the shot.

I'll do what I did that.

I won't take the shot.

- And if you're not comfortable,

you don't have to take the shot.

- In this situation, I was like, it's not a long shot.

It's only 28 yards, and it's a big animal.

And I'm pretty confident I got this.

I was like, I had to factor all these things in,

and then not let doubt creep into my head.

You know, stay totally calm.

So there's all these things going on simultaneously.

- It's a lot.

It's a lot to manage a lot.

But also a lot to a lot of factors to consider,

and then learn from.

- Yeah.

- I learned a lot from that hunt.

I learned a lot.

First of all, I learned how fucking tough stable are.

- That's the same experience I told you I had with Neil Guy,

that I shot that Neil Guy in South Texas,

and it ran like I didn't even hit it.

I hit it perfect.

The arrow went right through him.

It was the arrow we found the arrow,

30 yards past where I hit.

It was covered in blood, so we knew he was dead.

But he ran like he never even got hit.

He ran full speed like a cheetah.

It was crazy.

And the guy that I was with was like,

"Come on, they grew up around tigers."

These things evolved around tigers.

Like they don't just take getting hit

and go, "Oh no, I'm in trouble."

They fucking run.

They're so tough, and they barely bleed.

That's the other thing about these animals

that grow up around big predators.

Boy, they clog up their holes really quick.

They don't leave much of a blood trail.

It's not like an elk or a deer.

It's different.

- Yeah, I think Adam explains this well.

Sometimes you talk about when you hit 'em,

if they're stretched out,

then when they're not stretched out,

it just changes that the entrance wound,

and the exit wound, if there is one,

it just changes.

There's different layers of muscle and hide over it,

where it just blocks up that blood.

- It seems like they clog up quicker too, just period.

Like whatever their anatomy is, the differences,

when you hit them, they just don't bleed much.

- Yeah, I got a buddy that always, you know,

someone's like, "It was the perfect shot,"

and it's like, "Well, actually, it wasn't,

'cause it'd be dead already."

You know, so it's like, and I know what you're saying,

but the truth is, double lungs is double lungs,

and there's so many variations.

Like that reaction, they close up the gap,

or what broader do you use?

And if the animal's breathing out

when the arrow shoots through the lungs, or whatever,

it's just taking a bunch of oxygen in, you know,

- So it's a larger target.

- Yeah, and there's all those different,

it plus just more energy to run on.

And then, you know, you'll see certain hunters

at shoots, something that's not even dead yet,

and they're like, "Yeah!"

And start, "Yeah, who?"

And it's like, "What, shut the fuck up?"

Because that brings on on the adrenaline rush,

animals can run for, whereas you just want a nice,

relaxed setup, you know, and just a hit.

They don't know what's going on, the beauty of the bow,

'cause it's so quiet, there's not a loud gunshot

behind it or anything.

And then, you know, just, so they relax,

they don't want to run as fast,

they want to give up earlier,

because they've got nothing to spook from or fight from.

So, you know, - And they don't know what happened.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, sometimes they think they got jabbed

by another bull or something, like, "What happened?"

- Yeah. - 'Cause everything's crazy,

they're all rotten and screaming at each other,