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'Cause there's a giant percentage of the people that are listening to this right now that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing most of the time. Most of the time, most of their day, they're doing something they don't enjoy doing because they have to do it in order to do the things th...
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>> Yeah, we're just talking about the mountain line that we have in the lobby and how insane that thing is.
So Adam, you shot that mountain line when?
>> I think it was about six or seven years ago, and you ate it.
And I ate some of it, you sent something to me.
It's really good, believe it or not, ladies and gentlemen.
>> You wouldn't think so, but it's incredible.
>> Everybody says it's like, the way they describe it is, I think Rinalo said this, a superior pork.
>> Yeah, yeah, it's like, I think of it as a cross between venison and chicken.
And then, and I did a quick on the barbecue, and I'm not a great cook.
But it was that tender and that tasty.
>> But the story behind the mountain line's nuts, like that was a murderous mountain line.
It was, I felt a bit funny about it at the start with because, like the dogs do all the hunting, right?
The dogs smell, the dogs find it.
They put it up in a tree, but the fervor I looked into it, I'm like, well, you need the tree because you want to sex it.
And you want to age it, you know, you want to make sure it's a line that's, you know, old.
And it has to be a male, to shoot it in Colorado, at least at the time you had to anyway.
So it was actually the perfect way to hunt.
But then seeing how destructive that individual line was at least.
I was telling Cam about this when we got here that it must have grabbed the cow, like a beef cow.
It must have grabbed it on the neck.
And the cow couldn't move, you know, but it was still fully alive internally.
And vocally, it was still alive.
And when we got there, the mountain line was like eating it from its rear end.
And it had been there for at least an hour or two because there was quite a lot of meat that had been eaten out from the cow's arse.
And kicking its hooves. Yeah. And it just, but the cow couldn't get up.
So it was, it was literally eating it while it was still alive.
And as the dogs are running down there, you could hear this cow off in the distance, just like screaming, like mowing flat out.
And you could tell something was wrong.
The dogs got there, the line ran off, we ended up calling the rancher in.
The rancher come out, put the cow out of its misery, still screaming on the ground right in front of me.
I was, hey, I was teed up, like, you know, like I don't like suffering like the next person.
So it was a very horrible moment.
So then it was like, now I'm into it, like now I'm in define in this line.
It's like a werewolf's loose in your town, you know?
How much did that cat weigh, by the way?
I held it up for size and I could hold it for maybe 30 seconds.
And I literally couldn't hold it up anymore.
And I was trying to show the size of, you know, how big that line was.
It looks like it's at least 150 pounds.
Yeah, it's giant.
So it's like 170.
170, that's what you think it would be on the, on the par.
Yes, as it were.
Yeah, life.
Yeah, that's a big animal.
We were standing out in front of it, like going to imagine if this thing jumped on you.
It's a living monster.
It is a monster.
It's a real monster.
And it's like, oh, they killed their animal.
They're prey first.
No, they don't just make sure it doesn't move anymore.
Yeah, just whatever's good for anything.
Apparently, don't just start eating it.
Whatever's good for eating it's on.
They were the only thing that has compassion in the wild.
You know, like putting it out of the misery, like the rancher did.
You know, that's one thing about hunters, ranchers.
We do appreciate life and death.
And there is a time where, hey, let's put it out of its misery.
But it's, yeah, it's, man is the only one who thinks about that.
An animal, they'll just start eating.
They could care less about, they don't even know about pain, really,
or being merciful or anything like that.
It's just what we do.
Yeah, I always say like the line in Africa,
like it strives a zebra across the back end.
And the zebra gets away.
And it's just got like blood pouring out of it.
And it's got this horrible wound
that it's going to have to live with.
That line has not lost any sleep over that ever.
It's like, it's not even a thought, you know?
It's just fascinating that all these different creatures
exist with us because we're so insulated.
For the most part, like most people
are so insulated living in cities, traveling on buses and planes
and cars and never, never seeing a thing like this in real life.
And you realize like at the same time where you're going to Starbucks
and you know, you're picking out the new iPhone,
there's a lion running full speed at a herd of zebras right now.
Like right now in the world, there's a lion full speed at the zebra.
And it's going to tackle it.
It's going to grab it by its face.
And all these animals exist to keep each other in check.
That's the real beauty of nature.
And you really see it when we saw that
we were out yesterday, Cam and I were.
We're hunting for pigs.
And we saw a feral cat make a pounce on a mouse.
Like we were in the perfect.
It was one of the coolest things because even though
like it's a kitty cat, like a little tiny kitty cat,
little, it was fluffy too.
It was kind of cute.
We watched a predator in the rare moment
when you see him executing a kill.
And when it was only a feral cat, but it was still.
We saw, we saw a little butt wiggle.
We saw that thing that they do.
They get thin and then up in the air.
We're like, that is cool.
It was so wild.
And that's going on multiple places throughout on our planet,
right now, as you said.
Everywhere.
Yeah, it's like if you could have like zoom in on a little camera,
all these little interactions, a predator prey,
or I mean, that's happening.
Well, if you could see it all at once.
Like if there was a camera on every single predator prey
and counter, simultaneous in the world,
and it was broadcast on a screen that was like 700 feet high,
you would think, oh my God, we're at war.
There's a war in the natural world.
It's a constant war.
It's a planet, right?
Just cats alone.
Have you ever seen the numbers of what feral cats alone,
just house cats kill?
It's literally in the billions in North America.
Billions every year.
Non-stop kill. But imagine how many rats there would be
if the cats weren't out there.
Yeah, under a sun.
Like it's all, there's a balance to it all there.
Oh my God, these cats are killing everything.
Right, imagine how many f***ing mice would be out there
if there weren't cats.
Yeah, that's true.
It's all balance.
Yeah, that Adam's point about his lion and Colorado,
it's so managed, that animal actually could have been killed off,
because it was killing livestock.
Yeah.
You know, but when you kill a lion and Colorado,
it's very detailed, very documented and tracked.
It's like you can only take, like in the unit,
I was hunting lion.
I didn't kill one, but you could only kill 35 in the year.
And every time a lion comes in, they catalog it, check it,
get it, you know, all the information in there.
And then that's one of the 35.
Once you reach 35 quota, you're done.
You're done, so yes.
Let's put this in perspective, because if that doesn't happen,
and by the way, all that money goes back to the state,
it goes to game wardens, it helps everybody, it helps conservation.
If you don't have that, you know what you have?
You have what's going on in Japan.
Where Japan is having massive brown bear attacks.
So just last year, they had a kill.
I think it was at least 1,000.
I think it was more than 1,000 bears last year.
And this year is projected to be even higher than last year.
So the bears at the fucking military has to go in.
And they're having a war on giant brown bears.
They're killing, I don't know, how many people already this year?
Oh, shit ton.
Yeah, shit ton.
They are.
So you put that into perplexity, our sponsor.
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Dude, I've been hearing people in Montana and people in Wyoming
that have been saying we're seeing more brown bears
than ever before.
Guys are going on elk hunts and get it freaked out.
And like they have to de-list these fucking things.
Like they are totally fearless.
They've never been hunted.
So they have no fear of humans.
How many guys have you heard where the gun goes off
and the bear shows up after the gun goes off?
Because it knows that the elk is down or the moose is down.
Look at Dinneville.
Look at Dinneville.
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Oh yeah. I flew into Hikado, Japan had a period
where they would let foreigners hunt
and it had to be of a bow.
And I was chasing Seekestags over there.
And I had no idea they had a brown bear at all.
And I was going through these big, greedy area
like the reeds are up above your head.
And there was just a game trail going in there
like that the deer had been using.
And as I was going through there,
I could see that it was starting to open up
a little bit more like a flattened out section,
maybe like where the deer had been embedded.
And I got in there and there was a Seeker deer
just like the rib cage all chewed out.
And it was just a big muddy clearing
where this brown bear had got in there
and just rolled around with this carcass.
But the prints in the mud were like that.
I had no idea there was even bears there.
So what year is this?
Oh, it'll have to be 10 or 11 years ago now.
But Google's still around, right?
Yeah. You didn't check.
You didn't go, "Hey, what's in the area?"
I already went out of my spot.
I started messaging that outfit off.
And then like, dude, there's bears here.
Look at that bear.
Yeah. And then he started telling me
that it's some of the biggest brown bears there is.
Bro, that bear fucked up that guy's hood.
That's a big bear. Yeah.
But the police force, because I believe
there was an unarmed police force at the time,
they had an issue with a bear
where it had killed two hunters there.
And he had to go in and shoot this bear.
He had photos on a tractor.
And I don't do the gruesome photos,
but he's just flicking through his phone.
And the next photo is a guy with his face missing
from this brown bear attack.
And another photo of the bear,
when he went in the shoot, the bear,
the bear was in a stream holding the guy
down in the water, eating him in the water.
And it likes to, yeah, pretty gruesome.
So it's pretty full on, but up until that point,
I'd never even knew there was a brown bear in Japan.
Before you go someplace with a bow.
That makes sense.
To a cursory internet search.
You know, even if it's grayer, like, come on.
You guys have the internet, shut the fuck up.
Do you tell me some starling things going by?
They're way behind in Australia though.
We got that one.
They just got the internet.
This guy is a traveling bow hunter.
And he doesn't check to see if there's enormous monster
swimming in the same name of the line.
Oh, that's cute.
That's cute.
There's plenty of unknown out there.
You know, you don't need to add to it.
It's all disappear.
And all unknowns disappear because of the internet.
A little bit.
Another layer to that Japan story is,
the reason why they have to deploy the militaries,
'cause all the hunters are aging out.
So there was hunters there, but because hunting
is kind of like this dying thing for this next generation,
there's not enough hunters.
So they have to get the military involved.
Otherwise, it would be hunters like, you know,
you going over there and they've talked about like,
I mean, I know there's Americans
who would volunteer to do it,
but that's another part of it is this next generation,
just as a hunting.
- I have another question.
Jamie, put this into perplexity, please.
How many mountain lions were killed with depredation tags
in 2024 in California?
'Cause what I had read on a forum, so it has to be correct.
'Cause those guys were all experts.
- Oh yeah, they were valid.
- I had read that an equal number of mountain lions
had been killed with depredation tags by like experts,
with dogs, like the bringmen,
then if they'd given tags out.
So if they'd given tags out and let people mountain lion hunt,
you would have the exact same amount of mountain lions
that they had to kill.
And instead of that, you would have revenue.
- Yeah, money going.
- Instead of paying.
- Instead of the opposite.
- Right, instead of paying.
- And the collection of the middle ones.
- All right, California's not yet published
a full 2025 total, but the best available data
as of July 2025 shows at least 167 mountain lions
reported taken under depredation permits in 2020
and 166 in 2022 with annual totals of over 100
in recent years.
So every year they have to kill at least 100 mountain lions.
- Yeah. - Probably quite a bit more.
It looks like 67 more, 66 more.
- And I would say it's only went up since then.
- Yeah, well, the thing is they're doing nothing
to curb the population.
And this is the thing is people go,
"Oh, it's okay, let nature do its thing."
Now it doesn't do its thing, it kills your dog.
Okay, one of the things they found out in San Francisco
in the Bay Area was when they do shoot these mountain lions,
they've done an analysis of their diet.
It's 50% dogs and cats.
50% of their diet is eating people's pets.
So they're hunting people's pets.
That means you are, if you're a dog lover,
you're allowing a monster to eat your dog
because you think that's the right thing to do
and to be kind with nature, hey, me.
No, you have to hunt them.
You have to get them the fuck away from you.
I keep a healthy population of them.
And if you don't do that, it comes back to bite you in the dick.
- Here's one other search, Jamie.
Can you see how many mountain lions were taken in Oregon, legally?
'Cause that would be like, Oregon's of course,
this right north of California.
Let's compare the legal harvest in a state that hunt.
We can't use dogs, but you can kill them when you see them.
You can buy a tag in the season.
- Well, that's very difficult to kill 'em, right?
If you can use dogs.
- To do that, they have to have the season open all year
and they just hope enough are getting killed,
but then they still have to kill depredation.
And is that a situation where you buy like a mountain lion tag,
like just an extra tag and you just have it
just in case you run into one?
- So if you're out in the wilderness and you're hunting elk,
but you have a mountain lion tag.
- Yeah, that's it.
So we were hoping, if you see one,
basically I have a bear tag, lion tag, deer and elk.
- This is Oregon kills farm or cougars each year
than California, but those Oregon numbers can come mainly
from sport hunting and agency control,
not from depredation tags.
- Well, wait a minute, agency control is what we're looking at,
not depredation.
So what is the numbers here?
160.
- Reward the question.
- Yeah, let's reword the question and ask
how many were killed in California from agency control?
Put that in there.
How many mountain lions were killed in California
through agency control?
Because we were just looking at depredation tags,
which is like what a hunter or excuse me, a farmer gets.
- So it says in Oregon that we could kill 970,
but they never kill that many.
- Okay, they did not publish a queen state white tally
labeled specifically as agency control mountain line kills.
In current official tables,
group most lethal removals under depredation permits
rather than separate agency control category.
As a result, there's no single publicly available number
that states how many mountain lions were killed
through agency control alone.
Let's just put this in.
How many mountain lions were killed in California in 2024?
Just period.
Let's just ask that question.
- Yeah.
- I don't even know where we'd get this data.
- I don't know.
It have to be fishing game.
- 20?
- Hmm, that doesn't make any sense.
- Oh, so they're saying these figures
not include deaths from vehicles, but that's not true.
'Cause they just said earlier that it was 180 depredation incidents.
- And 222 depredation permits.
Out of those permits, 52 authorized lethal take
and 20 mountain lions were actually reported
as lethal taken on depredation permits.
That's weird.
This is totally different numbers than it was given us before.
So now it's only saying it was 52 authorized lethal ones.
- Yeah.
- Huh, I don't know.
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- I think so.
- Oh, okay, it says of the permits,
52 were authorized to kill them.
So it says lethal take.
So it's authorized to kill them in 20
where actually reported is lethal killed.
So they're saying it's only 20, that seems good.
- But that's for like a ranch owner to do the killing.
So they say, hey, this lion's been killing my calves,
480 times and 222 of those, they said,
okay, go ahead and kill the lion.
- Okay, right, so this is permits
that were released rather
than the agency doing the definition work.
- Right, so you would add this total
to the other number we have.
- Right, because the depredation thing too,
you got to think it's ranchers, right?
So these guys are all out in the middle of nowhere.
A lot of the depredations though that they might be listing
is what we were talking about with San Francisco
where they found that they're eating people's cats and dogs.
So maybe they get depredations,
it's not like, but you can't give it out
to the fucking homeowner.
- No, that would, so you only give those tags out
to ranchers, it seems like.
- Yeah, the people will have livestock this year.
- And the rest of the depredation is probably done by
some sort of a government guy.
- They would call it something other than depredation.
- Do you think he uses dogs?
How do you think they get them?
- Yeah, or snare.
Like an Oregon, Wayne has done this
where people, they're losing their goats,
their calves, something like sheep, something like that,
and then they'll let you snare it.
So you can go in there,
you take pictures of the animals that are killed,
and another snare in his, brutal.
- Yeah, or trap.
- Trap, basically trap.
- It's a foothold, yeah.
- In Texas, they treat them like coyotes.
- Yeah.
- He just whack them.
- Yeah, wow.
- I think that's the way to go,
because I think they're so hard to see,
they're so hard to find.
- Different politics.
- I've seen maybe two in all the hunting
that I've done, just naturally in the wild,
and you would have seen more,
but it's not a big number.
They're out there, but they're just so sneaky, right?
- Oh, they're so fucking sneaky.
We saw, I told you the story,
we saw the one in Utah with Colton.
- Yeah, a huge one.
- Like that one.
- It was like as big as yours.
It was fucking terrifying.
Inside of a car, 30 yards away,
and I'm shit in my pants.
- Yeah.
- I'm not even, yeah.
- And we're armed, and we have bows.
We have, you know, the difference between Oregon
and California and Texas, you know,
Texas has been on the shoot of my coyotes,
is that's politics, you know?
- Yeah.
- Of course, West Coast is liberal.
- Well, Utah changed it though.
Utah has it now like coyotes.
- Perfect.
- Yeah, that's how it should be.
- I think that has to be like management behind it.
I don't even know if you have to have a tag
in Utah anymore.
Let's find out it out.
Put that search in.
Do you need a tag to get a two hunt mountain line in Utah?
Maybe they just give out over the counter tags
and anybody wants them,
and they're still collecting revenue,
which is ideal.
That's the best way to do it.
- Yeah, and if the numbers are bright enough,
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- But Texas doesn't even do that.
They go, nah, we don't want to get involved.
You go ahead and shoot them.
And it's a fucking monster in your backyard.
- Yeah.
- The business coming from someone who loves them.
- Yeah.
- I love them.
I love them, they're amazing.
Okay, yes, you must have a valid Utah hunting
or combination hunting fishing license to hunt mountain lines,
but you do not need a separate cougar tag.
Okay, so it is like a coyote.
- Yeah, so it's year-round harvest for licensed hunters,
and you just have to get it checked in after you kill.
- Right, so all eight hours.
- Which is also smart.
- Yeah.
- 'Cause they want to know what it's been eating.
- That's how you do it.
- That's how you do it.
- That's how you do it.
Utah, way to go.
- Good job, Utah.
- That's the right way to do it.
And of course, you should have a hunting license.
I think you have to have one in Texas as well, don't have anything.
- This, talking about this, this.
- Actually, it's not true, right?
- What?
- No, I'm thinking that, no, I think in Texas,
you don't even need a hunting license to hunt exotics.
- No, not if they're on a private.
- Right, I think you could just go hunt 'em.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Right, okay.
- Talking about politics in different areas,
it reminds me of in BC, they outlawed grizzly hunting,
and just recently, maybe last week,
you know, a grizzly attacked a school group.
- Oh, I read about that, see that.
- That's another thing, so we're in the cities
who control a lot of the voting power of the,
that's a province, but states here,
is that the city's determinant and people living in the cities
don't know what the fuck's going on in the wilderness.
So they vote, I love lions, I love grizzly bear,
I love wolves, we need to have more of 'em.
Meanwhile, the people out in the mountains
are actually dealing with this shit.
And so Vancouver, you know, if we're talking BC,
specifically, Vancouver pretty much makes the decisions
for British Columbia, they said no more grizzly hunting,
and now it's just, you know, grizzly bear out of control.
- Did you ever meet my friend, Mike Hawkeridge?
- Yeah, we went to dinner at, after a fight once.
- That's right, one of the steak houses in Vegas, right?
Mike's great, and he, and Ben O'Brien,
took me on a moose hunt once,
and he was telling me that this was before
the grizzly bear band.
He was like, there's so many of 'em,
and he had a shoot one from six feet away,
one was breaking into a cabin,
and he had a shoot it from six feet away.
Tootie, like, they're terrifying up there.
They have so many of them, and they have wolves everywhere.
We stumbled on a wolf kill, we got there, you know,
it was probably a day old, I don't know,
but it was nothing but hair.
That was the thing that shocked me, it was a moose calf.
- Oh, okay.
- And there was nothing but hair.
That was what was weird.
It was like, I didn't anticipate seeing so much hair.
Like the moose hair was everywhere, just everywhere.
I thought it'd be like a dead animal,
but it was just basically bones,
and there was like a tiny bit of meat
on, you know, corners of the bones.
And hair, everywhere.
It was just like, they're like, pow!
Like they're like, pow, pow!
Just tearing into this moose capping, capping up hair.
I didn't see one when I was up there.
Although I think we did see one in the distance
when we were at John and Jen's place.
We saw one when we thought it was a bear,
or we thought it was a wolf run across the road.
I was either with you or I was with Ben.
- Yeah.
- I don't remember who it was,
but I've never seen a wolf in the wild.
- Right.
- Like absolute, like look at him.
- Oh yeah, yeah.
- Yeah, yeah.
- They look at you in a certain way, I think.
- Oh, bro.
- Like one of the first trips I ever did to Canada
was I've been Northwest Territories.
And I actually thought it was Karibu coming down the river.
Like just the color of the wolves,
it was similar to a Karibu.
And then I worked out our wolves
and the guy that I was wearing,
he's like, oh, it's a pack of wolves
and I'm like, can I call him in?
- Oh God.
- And he--
- That 'em green tree, what's wrong with you?
- He's like, yeah, and then I got up against the tree
and I just started doing like a call that I'd do
for like a fox or a wild dog back in Australia.
And this whole pack come in.
- Like a wounded rabbit.
- You'd never seen him come in.
They were like up in our vision up there.
Yeah, like a rabbit called Distress Rabbit.
And the next minute,
I was just like, they were fully surrounding us
and just come in, it was pretty cool.
But I just remember they could fully say me at that point
and I was still just like looking for me.
I was like, yeah, that's it.
- Right, you ever heard Dudley's story?
- When Dudley and some guy that he was with in BC,
I think it was BC, pretty sure.
Or no, it was Alberta.
They killed a, I think it was an elk.
But when they killed it,
they killed it essentially on top of where the wolves den.
Like right there.
And wolves started circling around them
and the guide had like one round in his rifle.
And Dudley had like two arrows or three arrows left.
And they're surrounded by wolves
and Dudley shot two of them with a bow and arrow
and the guide shot one with a rifle.
They shot three wolves.
Three wolves.
He said there was like, they were surrounding.
He said it was the freakyest fucking thing
he's ever experienced.
- Yeah, it wouldn't have been a great feeling.
- He told the story on the podcast and it was just like,
fuck that man.
You only have two bullets, you fucking asshole.
Like what is wrong with you?
- Two bullets in one life.
- What do you, what the fuck are you doing man?
You know first what's up there?
- Killed a bull in New Mexico one year
and I killed it late in the afternoon.
So we did a pack out.
This is just going back to the mountain line story.
We took, we did a pack out with me,
went back in in the dark, we've head torches.
And as we're walking in, I seen a couple of eyes
or whatever and it was just like deer,
meal deer or something like that.
And then I'm like, oh there's another deer up in front of us.
And as we got closer, the eyes were too high.
And it's just like, no, that's not a deer.
And it was a mountain line up in the tree.
Like it was right up in the tree.
There was the kill there.
That line stayed in the tree where we grabbed more meat
and packed it out.
- You grabbed his meat?
- Yeah.
- The mountain line's meat?
- Well, it was his kill, it was my kill.
- And I was going back in for it
and just thinking it was a set of deer eyes
and as we're walking up, the eyes were like up in the tree.
And that's like, so I've only seen two.
That's one of them and it was in the dark.
And I swear if it was daylight,
I would have seen one of my holdings
while I was hunting for it.
- Did you see Cam's brother story on Instagram?
Oh my God.
Cam's brother was running late at night
in California at night in California.
And should we play it?
- Yeah.
- Did we ever play it on the show?
- I think we might have.
We might have.
- Did you?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- I know you mentioned it.
- Fucking terrifying.
- Yeah, yeah.
It's terrifying.
- I've never seen that in Australia by the way.
- What's your brother's name again?
- Taylor.
- Taylor.
- It's like T Spike.
- Yeah, yeah, Taylor.
So it's my stepdad and mom had two kids.
Taylor and Megan.
- Oh, okay.
- So those are my brothers, a brother and sister.
And then he does ultra's too.
- Yeah, he's actually really good.
- Yeah.
- He seemed like one of them dudes who had to get it in.
- Yeah, he's still here to get it in at night.
- He did a 300 mile race just last year.
He got, he's competing, trying to win the thing,
of course, but it got second.
- Wow.
- The Arizona monster, 300.
- That's insane.
- Oh my God.
So that's--
- That hurts my hips and my joints.
- That's the level he's at.
- 300 miles of, 300 kilometers.
- Miles.
- That makes it so much worse.
- You think it about kilometers.
- I thought you're an American now.
You can vert you.
We're trying to teach you inches, you know.
- I'm killing my lip for some reason.
- That's an American thing.
- You guys don't have inches.
- It's probably illegal over there.
- Probably.
- Yeah, they'll take it away.
- Government's gonna control it.
- Yeah, how's that working out?
- You can do that, but you have to wear a mask.
- Did you find Taylor's video?
- I think it's on his Instagram.
- Yeah, it is, it's definitely.
Did I send it to you at one point in time, maybe?
- I just found a video of you talking about it.
- Wow.
It's, unless he took it down, I don't think he took it down.
What is his Instagram handle?
- It's T-Spike, something like that.
T-Spike, something.
- Yeah, I'll find it at--
- T-Spike, 300 miles.
Coming in second place in 300 miles is,
but that's insane.
- Yeah.
- And meanwhile, how much difference
was there between him and number one?
- I think a couple hours probably.
- Oh God.
- Oh God.
- That's insane.
- But it took a--
- Oh God.
- I think he did it in 88 hours.
- That is nuts, man.
- That's a serious effort.
- Yeah, that is a serious effort.
- There's some freaks out there for sure.
- I'll do it one day.
- He's one of 'em.
- Are you gonna do it one day for real?
- Yeah.
- T-Spike, too.
- Couple more, this is the way as well will be good.
- What, Jamie?
- I don't know where the video is.
- Okay, I'll find it.
- I'll find it.
- Yeah, oh, it's me talking about it, that's for it.
- Oh, he must have really shared that or something.
- Yeah, here it is.
I found it right away.
- It's just his face when you see his face down at the camera.
It says Lion, oh, you got it?
Okay.
It says Lion Update.
Yeah, this is it.
Give me some volume.
- The restless night of this reoccurring dream
of these green eyes hot on my tail.
I was coming down the trail last night, just after dark,
and I see these green eyes off to the side of the trail.
I mean, right on the side of the trail,
where I thought was a coyote, I just kind of yelled.
And then when it stood up, I realized
it was a fucking mountain lion.
I took off rotting as hard as I could,
and I looked over my shoulder,
and it was right behind me.
I ran for pie, a hundred yards,
and realized it wasn't giving up,
and I turned around, and I kicked rocks,
and I jumped up and down,
and I screamed at the top of my lungs,
and the thing did not care.
I did that a few times to the point that,
at one point, I almost stopped.
I'm just gonna lay down here and die,
because I'm not gonna outrun this fucking thing.
Another time, it got really close to me,
and I thought I had no choice but to try to scare it,
and I turned, and I screamed, and I kicked rocks.
I mean, to the point, it was right there,
and I finally decided, well, you just gotta run,
run for your fucking life.
I've done some crazy shit in my life.
I've been pretty scared, but this, this was next level.
This was next level.
It terrified me.
You know, I think maybe if I had a gun,
I could've done something, pepper spray.
I don't think that it was so close
that I would've probably pepper sprayed myself.
So, I don't know, I was a half mile from the city
in Lake Forest, California.
I mean, like, straight up, I could hear dogs barking,
and at one point, I thought maybe that's what
kind of detoured it,
but this didn't care.
So, this morning, I'm gonna ride the bike.
Probably won't go back out there in the dark.
I did weigh her off of the Sheriff's Department
and fishing game, because there was other hikers
on the trail that were above me,
that what I had to have come down,
and I just don't know how other people would've responded.
Like I said, I just was scary shit.
I've been in the woods my whole life,
but this, this was next level.
It was terrifying, but I'm all good, back at it, right?
I guess if this only happens one time in your life,
I got it out of the way.
I'm a lucky fucker.
Have a good day, I'll keep at it.
- Doesn't work like that.
- Ooh.
- Oh, yeah.
- That is the consequences of letting monsters live
in your neighborhood, yeah, that's real.
And every all these wilderness loving people,
I guarantee you, you're not out there as much as that guy is.
I guarantee you, not out there as much as you are, or you are.
That's the difference between people
that really understand what we're talking about,
and people that are looking at this
from this knee jerk love and compassion
for nature perspective.
- Well, back to what Cam said,
it's like the majority of votes of people
that don't get in that environment.
- Yeah.
- You know, and it's not just about hunting,
that's for farmers anywhere as well.
There's people in the city that are making votes
for people that live in the country,
and the lifestyles completely different.
- And they don't understand what they're talking about,
especially the BC band.
Like we're gonna bend trophy hunting,
trophy hunting's bad.
But what about monster control?
Isn't that good?
I'm on fucking team people, okay?
I love animals, but I am on team people.
- Imagine if they knew how soft we were.
They don't have to spit out hair.
- No.
- Like the flesh is right here, it's soft.
It's so easy to get into it.
- 'Cause they usually go in at the stomach,
you know, or the ass, it's like our stomach.
How soft those are.
- Striped organs, yeah.
- That's right, right to the good stuff.
- Yeah, it's not good.
- And it's like new.
- Even I don't think people,
like even a dog can turn into,
like I killed a buck, you know,
before we went on that last hunt, I killed a buck.
And like for the treat, for the dog,
you cut off the nuts, give them the nuts.
So it's got hide on it.
It's got the, the buck's nuts, basically.
Dog takes off, it's just like ripping into it.
It's like delkacy, right?
That's just a normal dog.
So, a lion who's born and bred to kill,
I mean, that's just the level of what animals do.
- Your liver is a rib eye, and they have a knee in a week.
- You're like, oh, baby.
Look at that liver, it's right there.
- Yeah.
- And those, the dogs there, that deer camp,
you give them like a part of the,
I don't know, there's some skin.
It's not the flank steak,
but it's just some skin there that sometimes you cut off,
that goes over the stomach,
and run off, eat pounds and pounds of meat.
A regular dog, so a lion, yeah, they'll eat,
what they do is they just eat as much meat as they can,
and they just kind of lay around.
So that's the time to actually run from a lion
is after a big meal, you know what I mean?
'Cause their stomachs are full of meat.
Maybe that's why Taylor, maybe that lion that chased him
had just killed a deer and was full of protein,
but they still hunt, that's what they do.
That's their instinct, but sometimes you can time it right,
and maybe that saves your life.
- Yeah, geez, they don't, that's not a risk we should be taken.
- No, if you can avoid it, it's always better.
- It's like, they're so hard to find people don't understand.
You're not gonna put a dent in their population.
This is not like any other, it's not like deer.
You can deep populate a deer, like an environment of deer.
If you went crazy and hunted them all,
and you said, what's the eradicate all the deer?
Every hunter, you can shoot as many deer
as you want, just let's go do it right now.
You can get rid of all the deer.
You ain't ever doing that with cats.
- Yeah, they're too snakey.
- Not now, not now.
- Even in Australia, with buffalo,
you can fly and eliminate a lot of stuff.
Pigs here, deer, buffalo down there,
the water buffalo, but you're not doing
helicopter killing of lions.
- Yeah.
- You can do wolves, no wolves.
- You can do lower wolf populations, and they do.
They're doing some parts of the world.
They do an Alaska, right?
- Yeah.
- They do wolf kills from helicopters?
- Yeah, and yeah, lions are just tough,
but I didn't even realize this,
but Oregon, as we were looking at those numbers
that Jamie pulled up, Oregon, the goal is 970 lions a year,
but we never get to it.
- Right.
- So what that means is we're not meeting
our objective of lion kills.
That means there's more and more lions every year.
- Don't they factor that into the amount of tags
that they give though, that there's gonna be
a limited amount of success, so they'll give more tags
than they actually need to kill?
- For lions, or for lions to do that?
- Oh, yeah, I'm not sure how they do it.
It's supposed to be like a balance, you know what I mean,
if, but what happens is not enough lions are getting killed,
so there's too many lions, so that means
the lions are killing too many deer, no,
'cause the lion number is too high.
And that's what's kind of happening.
There's areas in Oregon that were great hunting at one time
that are terrible now.
- Well, here's a perfect example.
Where I used to live in California,
you guys have been in my house.
A lot of land, a lot of woods, a lot of like,
there's a lot of like wildlife out there.
Good luck finding a deer.
- Oh yeah.
- You might find two, three in a month, in a month.
I see deer every fucking day out here.
I see him every day, you know why?
No mountain lions, and you could shoot him.
California has a mountain lion problem.
Like it's a real problem.
The place, the home ranch, that place,
they had a camera out in front of one of their ponds
and they got 16 different mountain lions on that camera.
16.
- Yeah.
- And what, the people in LA,
they have no idea what's going on, but they're voting.
- Right.
- That's who controls what's--
- I started with their hops.
- Yeah, well, they're good people,
and I would have voted with them, right?
Okay, if I had never been hunting
and never been in the woods, I would have voted with them.
Maybe not, maybe not,
because I'm a little fucking skeptical of people's wisdom.
And I'd probably have looked into it a little bit
and thought about what it'd be like
to get eaten by a mountain lion and go,
what the fuck are we talking about?
- Right.
- Kill these goddamn things.
You fucking crazy?
Don't kill 'em all.
You don't have to kill 'em all.
They're gonna exist in the woods where they're supposed to be.
They're not supposed to be in Pasadena.
- Right.
- Okay, they're not supposed to be wandering around
the fucking Hollywood Hills.
Like that one that I have the big picture of?
- No.
- That one's crazy.
- That lion, that picture is insane.
The Hollywood sign behind him and he's wearing a collar.
That picture to me embodies
everything that's wrong with California.
You know where he is and he's in the neighborhood
where people live and you just put a collar on him?
- Yeah.
- So you could track him when he's fucking killing dogs?
Like, what are you saying?
You know how many, look at that photo.
- Yeah.
- That is a sick fucker.
- That is an amazing photo ever.
- Ever taken.
As soon as I saw that photo,
I'm like, oh my god, we have to buy a print.
- What do you think he's thinking?
- Order it from the photographer.
What is he thinking?
What am I going to kill next?
- What?
- And why is this fucking thing on my neck?
- He's the most tithiest.
- That's right above where Huberman used to live.
- Oh, it's dude, it's right there.
By the way, that's like,
we filmed fear factor out there, a punch attack.
- Yeah.
- Look at that fucker.
- Oh, I know.
- Oh my god, look at his face.
- I'm just wandering into that.
The thing is so big.
How sick of a photo is that?
- Amazing.
- Yeah.
- And it's all camera traps.
- Yeah.
- But here's what's so critical in, you know,
hunters, we can be our own worst enemies.
But part of what discussions like this
and talking about how it actually works
is so important.
It's not for other hunters.
It's for people who don't hunt who do vote.
You know, it's like, hey, let's just educate people
who don't understand.
It's not your fault you don't understand.
You haven't hunted your whole life.
That's okay.
But just listen to what we're saying.
And just say like, hey, when that vote comes up
and it's like, we're talking about, you know,
being able to hunt lions with dogs or black bear with bait.
Let's think about, hey, there's repercussions
if we don't allow this, you know?
- They don't just don't know what it is.
It sounds cruel.
Lions with dogs.
So I go, that's not even fair.
- You want to hunt it with a spare.
If you want to hunt it like we used to hunt them
hunt it with a spare.
- You're bare hands.
- No, bare hands.
That's what I see.
Kill with your bare hands.
- That's the dumbest argument.
That's the dumbest.
How do you think we got to the point
where we don't have fangs, you fucking dalt?
- And this, we got there, we evolved past that
because we figured out weapons, okay?
And that's why we can have cities.
- Never kill shit with our hands.
- At least they had a fucking wooden spear.
So what are you talking about bare hands?
- It's the dumbest fucking argument of all time.
- And the people that don't understand
that we would have never had civilization
if we didn't do this.
- Yeah, exactly.
- And the conversation doesn't come
from a one perspective from me.
I've got no desire to hunt a mountain lion again.
I don't, but as someone that's in the know
because I have before, you know,
and I wanted to educate myself prior to that hunt,
I was doing as much reading as I could
to find out, do I feel good about this?
Is, yeah, so it's not like I want them still
on the list to hunt because I want to go and do it again.
I don't have it desired to do that again myself,
but I do see that it's good management.
You know, instead of them being culled and not utilized,
you know, and it actually costing money, you know,
there's money going into conservation at that point
from the hunter, and the meat should allize, you know,
and as you mentioned in that case,
I gave that meat to a lot of people
because I wanted people to see it as a food source as well,
you know, because you do.
You sort of think of the mountain lion,
you're like, ugh, the meat was amazing.
Some of the most incredible meat I've ever had.
- Yeah, I mean, even if, so just say,
they didn't require you to take the meat
and you didn't, and you didn't eat it,
still they need to be killed.
They're solders to it just to make the deer and elk population
is to make a work I could have to work
because humans, people will always say,
well, mother nature will take care of itself.
It's like, no, humans have encroach on this habitat.
That's why we need to control this.
This isn't like the wide open west that it once was
where, yeah, maybe it would work out eventually.
It's not gonna work out.
- They were here first.
- Yeah.
- They were here first.
- They were part of the system, 100%.
- Adam, you know, he said he's killed one.
He doesn't plan on killing another.
I've never killed one.
I've never killed a lion in my entire life,
but I know it's important.
So it's not like on this big lion hunter
that I just have this passion for doing
and I want to kill as many as possible.
Never even killed one.
But I know that we have to kill him.
And in Colorado there, that's one thing you know,
you talk about sex and the animal up on the tree
'cause you can see what it is, male, female.
You don't, when I hunted him, I did hunt him.
I didn't kill, but you could kill any lion,
essentially if it didn't have, you know,
it couldn't be a female with cubs, or kittens,
but you look at him in the tree and you can decide,
oh, that's a female, probably not the best kill.
Let's kill an old male 'cause it's just,
that's how it just works better that way,
taking old males out, but you can do that.
And the same thing with baiting bear.
A bear comes in, a bear is really tough to tell
whether it's a bear or a sour, that's male or female
for those that don't know, but at a bait,
when you're looking very close, you can,
oh, that's an old male, that's the one I want to take.
So that's why, that's why there's,
it's not just random, like, I'm rifle hunting,
it's 400 yards away running, and you kill like a bear,
and it has cubs, you didn't realize it had cubs,
because the cubs are in a tree somewhere
that the sour left.
So that's where baiting is actually the best way
to manage these numbers.
And it might seem like, oh, you just throw out donuts,
and this and that, and the bear comes in.
I mean, yeah, you could turn them like that,
or you could say no, we're targeting the right animal
to make this work the best way it can.
- Well, people need to understand that,
the wildlife biologists and the numbers that they put up
and the rules that they apply,
especially the rational rules like that,
they exist because it's the only effective way
to hunt these things.
Like, you don't use dogs to hunt elk, you know what I'm saying?
It's like, because it doesn't seem right, right?
There's one effective way to get these mountain lions,
and you gotta tree 'em, if you don't have that option,
and you're bow hunting, you have to stumble upon one,
and they're gonna know you're coming forever
before you know they're there, forever.
Hundreds of yards away, they're gonna smell you,
they'll hear something, they'll turn and look at it,
they have amazing eyesight, you know?
Like, you're not finding them,
and if you wanna keep the populations in check,
there's like California's got a bear problem too,
and part of their bear problem is you can't use dogs anymore.
There was the only way they could really control
populations in a lot of these places.
- Dogs are baiting, hey, Jamie, I got another project.
So Cam Canada, you start, you spell with a K.
He, as we were talking about, he had a deer tag,
he's deer hunting, in Oregon, this what you do,
you just buy a bear and a lion tag just to have with you.
But he killed this giant lion, he was deer hunting,
this lion came up, sat on this rock 40 yards away,
and he's just like, I got a lion tag, perfect, boom.
Got, put a perfect arrow in this giant lion,
but look at this thing.
- And he's a big deer. - Oh yeah, there's a slob.
He played for the Steelers for like six years in the NFL.
And yeah, so that was just like a happen chance,
that's how you get him in Oregon,
because you can't use dogs, you can't do anything else.
So that lion just jumped up there
and he made a perfect shot on it.
- That's crazy. - I mean,
but look at that big thing.
- God. - Yeah, pretty nuts.
(laughing)
And like I said, Cam's like six, four, I don't know, two, three.
- Do you ever see one Derek Wolfkill?
- Yeah, that was a giant one, too. - Giant one.
So the Derek Wolf story is a great one, too,
because he took so much heat online about it.
People were so angry in him that he did that.
And it's just people that don't understand why it's necessary.
And first of all, if you know Derek Derrick,
so fucking legit Viking. - He's a legit Viking.
That guy's a giant human being.
So for him, to be, is there another picture
we see like the full, like, that's it.
There's the full, like, 180 pounds or something.
- Look at the size of that fucking thing.
- Yeah, so you, and I don't know what the numbers are,
but you think a lion kills,
especially a lion that big,
has to basically kill a deer every week, right?
So that's 365 deer a year, that thing is killed.
Or no, not this is a 52 deer a year.
(laughing)
- Imagine it as a deer a day. - Every day.
- No, but do you know the wolf thing?
- Possibly.
- They say lions are killing more deer now
than ever in places where there's wolves.
Because the wolf's got to line off the kill all the time.
They steal them all the time.
So the lions just give up and they go kill another one.
They can kill way easier than a deer kill.
They're way more effective killers.
- So think about, so say 50, or 50 deer a year for each lion.
How many lions are in Colorado?
- A lot.
A lot, you know, I mean, that's a lot of fucking deer
or elk calves or something's being killed.
- Yeah.
- Australia's got a real bad problem
with shark population now, and it's like,
and I'm taking it there because what's happening is
for like a really good eat and fish like a red emperor,
you'll only get like five red emperor
that's your quota for the day you can only catch five.
And what the sharks are doing now is you'll hook a red emperor
and the sharks will just take it off the line.
So you don't have a red emperor in the boat anymore,
but one's dead because the sharks got it.
So you keep fishing.
And then, so now the red emperor numbers are declining
because sharks, that's their favorite fish
to grab off a line.
You can catch a cod, you'll get it to the boat
because the sharks aren't going for it.
But if it's a red fish, the sharks are taking it constantly.
And then, so what's happened is
because there's been a ban on shark fishing,
shark numbers are got now to control.
So now red emperor numbers have plummeted
because the sharks are just eating them constantly.
- How many people on Australia can kill by sharks every year?
- There's been a few this year already.
Yeah, I actually just had my girlfriend out
a couple of, oh, maybe a month or two ago.
And I took her to this beautiful beach
and it was awesome.
Soon as we got there, there's dolphins jumping out of the water
and whatnot.
Anyway, we never went for a swim
just because of how the conditions were.
And a week later, a lady was taken from that beach
and her partner may have died as well.
I didn't follow up on the story,
but a partner got attacked as well,
but got out of the water.
And it's great why it's mostly on the east coast.
They seem to be running pretty rampant at the moment.
- Oh, Jack, kill them.
(laughing)
- It's the bleeding hearts that are making the votes.
- Four confirmed fetal shark attacks in 2025 so far
with some trackers listing four or five deaths
depending on how many incidents are classified.
And but think about how much less people
are out there in the water than in the brown.
- Oh yeah.
- That's the thing.
So people go, there's only four shark attacks a year.
Right, but how many people are in the water?
- Yeah, out of 500 people.
- Yeah, it's not a lot of people in the water swimming out there.
- We have a lot of white to go.
- Oh, good lord.
- It's an absolute monster of the ocean.
- Oh, yeah, isn't it weird to think that,
I mean, most society doesn't know anything
about the wild these days.
You know what I mean?
- Yeah, we're domesticated.
- Yeah, so it's, but even like, I don't know,
I always say that, I mean, we talked about this.
I'm pretty sure 'cause I talk about it all the time.
But like, I always think that society,
like this regular life here is fake.
It's like, it's not even real.
It's not even how humans are designed to live and survive.
Where the wild is actually where that's how,
that's what we're designed to do,
live in the mountains or hunt and survive, things like that.
And so, the fake life, I don't know,
it's just crazy to me to think about that.
- The fake life is what we think of as real life.
- Yeah, it's a real life and it's not real.
It's like, what we're doing, yeah, it's just not real life.
- Yeah, we're made to live in a society
that's not by mine or your design.
- Right.
- You know, and it's sort of like,
and that's, I always feel out of it in society
because I just feel like it's not for me.
But it is, it's here and we've got to live in it.
I do like going the way it's the world
and getting a good injection.
(laughing)
So, but I just want to go when I want to go.
- That's the way to do it.
Attack it from the outside.
Go in, go to a nice restaurant,
get back out to the country and just fucking relax.
It's better for people.
You ever see that, the old days of vice,
when vice used to do really cool stuff,
that vice guy to travel.
And there's this one guy who lives in the Arctic Circle.
And this dude is, he's been there since the 1970s.
He got a job up there and got permitted
where he's like grandfathered in
to allow to live in a small cabin up there.
Like the last guy there, he has like a permit on his door.
And this guy has been living up there ever since.
He saw 9/11 in a photograph like a year after it happened.
I had no idea what was going on.
Very smart guy, like intelligent, interesting guy,
and lives up there with his wife.
And all he does is hunt caribou and fish.
And he talks about it and he's like,
this is how people are supposed to live.
Like he's not like, he's a very intelligent guy.
So like when he's talking about,
he's talking it from like an internal programming.
Like this is like, this feeling that you get living like this
is how people are supposed to live.
And when you live like this, you're very fulfilled
and it feels normal.
Whereas most people don't feel normal.
Most people are depressed.
They have anxiety, they're worried about their career,
they're worried about all this stuff that is like human created.
They're worried about their social status,
whether they're ostracized from the neighborhood
or people like them anymore because they're political beliefs
or whatever the fuck it is.
There's none of that out there.
There's none of that because it's the way we were designed.
But if we want all the things that we enjoy,
like fucking Starlink and cell phones,
like you have to have this weird fake world
that we've created, the human created world.
But it's not conducive to like a healthy mindset
for most people, it's not normal.
And so all the, I have this thought about why exercise
is so important for people's mental health.
'Cause I think at the very least what it does is
it gives you like the physical exertion
that your body requires.
But I think your body requires a connection as well.
And that's what we're missing.
We're missing the natural world connection.
And you can get some of that out of the physical exercise.
You can get some of that out of like doing,
but your body's literally designed to have to move
and to complete tasks in order to survive.
And that task could be like that guy out there hunting caribou,
building a house, surviving, like making a homestead,
growing a garden, like this is a normal way we are.
But we're moving into this abnormal way along the way.
People are losing their fucking marbles.
Everyone's crazy.
No one knows what a woman is anymore.
Like everyone literally out of their fucking mind.
Out of their mind with the left wind, the democracy will f-
the right wind, we're all gonna be Nazis.
And it's just chaos.
And none of it is normal, none of it is natural.
And the reason why it's so incompatible with most people
is 'cause we're not designed for it.
- I feel it, I know Cam's the same,
but like it's just like time doing those things
that are usually in a quieter environment,
in a more natural environment.
Like I mentally feel better every time.
And then I almost feel myself slipping
when I come back to the city.
You know, and it's just like,
you sort of start letting your guard down.
You just slip back into it and you're like,
this is, I'm not enjoying this.
And then you go back out hunting for us or camping
or whatever it is.
And then I do, I feel revitalized.
I feel healthier mentally and physically, I feel healthier.
And then, by adding all the other things to it,
like you talk about exercise and yeah, it does touch on it.
And I think all those little things help,
but to really get out and fresh air
is the big one for me, where it's just, I do.
I feel more flow-state.
- I wonder if like, I'm sure a primitive man felt emotions
for sure, but do you think they felt depressed?
- No, I think, you know what I mean?
- I feel like that was too busy.
- I think it survived, eight.
- I think people, I think this is part of this fake society
is like, are you happy?
Are you happy?
It's like, happy, what the fuck is happy?
I wanna be useful out there.
I wanna do something.
I'm not happy, I'm nothing.
- Right, what is happy?
- I'm content, I'm content just being.
- Right, I feel content just being.
- When you're in the mountains carrying your bow,
glassing, looking, drinking, eating,
looking for a place to sleep, what is that?
That's what I want.
I don't know what it is, but that's like purpose.
I have a purpose, I'm trying to kill something.
That is that happy?
- Yeah, you're trying to find food.
- To me that feels, 'cause I don't know what happy is.
I see people, they laugh and they're fucking around.
Sometimes it's alcohol-induced, or drug-induced,
or it's like, is that supposed to be happy?
What is happy?
I don't know, I don't know what are we calling happy?
'Cause that's not like a little kid laughing at birthday party,
but are both, are they both happy?
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limited time offer.
Well, there's different kinds of happiness, right?
Yeah, happiness you get on a fun date.
You know, there's happiness you get when you, you know,
you do fun stupid shit.
Like you go play, like sandbox games,
you pretend you're shooting zombies with VR.
That's happy, it's fun.
It's silly.
Yeah, out of it, everyone has a smile.
You had a good time, that was wild.
That's happy too.
There's a bunch of different kinds of happiness.
Some of it we've created, but there's content,
like are you enjoying your existence?
Yeah.
I think that's a real struggle for a lot of people, right?
'Cause there's a giant percentage of the people
that are listening to this right now
that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing
most of the time.
Most of the time, most of their day,
they're doing something they don't enjoy doing
because they have to do it in order to do the things
that they do enjoy.
So if you wanna go on vacation,
you gotta make enough money to afford the trip to Hawaii.
If you wanna do this, you gotta do that.
If you wanna do this, you gotta do that.
And so you're just working in some stupid cubicle,
punching keys, just planning all the fun stuff
you're gonna do with the money that you make
doing this thing you hate doing.
It's pretty nuts.
It is.
It's, I've never felt happy in that.
That's what I've said.
But having the do's something to get to somewhere,
sometimes you have to be unhappy.
That's true too.
And you're also a person to be commenting on this
because you're extreme.
You're never gonna be happy
'cause you're gonna continue to chase bigger and better.
- Yeah, that's what I say.
- Which is good, that's awesome.
- I don't know, I mean,
and I've mentioned this before,
I'm happiest when I'm suffering.
- Yeah.
- That's ridiculous.
- No, but like, doesn't it feel like Adam and I,
we just lived in each other, it's fucking crazy.
- No, because when I'm suffering,
it's because I'm doing something that matters to me.
- Right.
- Yeah, you like that.
And you know what's on the other side.
- I think you've also, yeah, you've sort of programmed
yourself to be like that too.
You know, this is like, similar to Goggins, right?
Goggins always wants people to know
that he wasn't always like this,
that he used to be fat and lazy.
And he shows pictures of himself at 300 pounds.
He always talks about it.
You know, it's like, this isn't,
I wasn't born like this.
Like I turn myself into this.
And I think one of the reasons
why you've been able to struggle so much
is that you've figured out a way to enjoy struggle.
And a lot of people avoid struggle at all costs.
They want the couch.
Oh, I want to relax.
It's cold out.
I don't want to get in that fucking cold plunger.
You crazy.
What's wrong with you, you know?
- I love struggle because you know what's on the other side.
- Yeah.
- Because it's done it.
- So it's like, once you've done that,
and I think that's where a lot of people struggle.
If they quit or they don't get to the other side,
then you don't know the reward on it.
- Well, you just said it's perfect.
That's why they struggle because they don't struggle.
It's like the thing you're avoiding
is causing you to have the exact same thing.
It's just you're getting a slow dose of that poison
and you never get out of it.
Whereas if you voluntarily struggle,
then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over.
But you're not doing that.
So you're just getting the same amount of struggle
in these weird little slow doses all day long.
All, so you're never getting like,
oh my god, I'm an agony, I can't breathe.
But if you did, then the rest of the day would be easy.
- Yeah.
- You're getting, oh my god, the world is closing in on me
and I don't know why I'm so freaked out
and I'm riddled with anxiety all day long
for no fucking reason.
I'm having a panic attack and there's nothing wrong.
That's what's going on.
You're getting your suffering in like little doses all day long
and it's driving you fucking crazy.
And that's why you get on SSRIs and that's why you do this
and that's why you do that and you join a cult.
And everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better.
Everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better.
And one of the ways to feel better
is voluntary struggling.
You've got to volunteer to put yourself
in stressful situations, difficult situations.
Do it on purpose.
If you do that, then the regular world is easier.
- Yeah, I think I'm always of course biased
towards hunting in the mountains,
but also think that men specifically,
where I grew up and in the environment I grew up,
hunters were respected and if you killed a big buck,
you're like, that meant something in a small town.
I was... - 'Cause it's very difficult to do.
- Right, and it's like for men respect
is such an important thing.
You know, it's like where we say like,
women need love, men need, if you have to choose,
men love doesn't mean shit really, but respect does.
And like, hunting was a way to earn respect from the community.
And that's why for men like when I, as hunters,
I think that's appealing for people who don't hunt
'cause they see that image and they're like,
I'm missing that because they see
that there's respect earned there.
And that's what men, whether they wanna admit it or not,
that's a big driving force, even at work.
Whatever job you have, you wanna be respected.
- Here's a perfect example.
That story you were telling me about shooting that bull
in the Oregon backcountry and terrible place to kill a bull,
and you called up that dude.
- Yeah.
- That guy, Cal Halliday.
- Which sounds like a fake name.
- We're talking about that.
- That guy's a slinger.
- Cal Halliday sounds like such a fake name.
It's a perfect badass name.
You call this dude and ask him to help you.
Dude drove through, he told him, okay,
he said, "I'll see you there at 8 a.m."
This guy's drives through the night, he shows up.
Like, how many hours did it take him to get there?
- It was four guys.
So he had to round up three other guys.
So he brought four of him and three guys.
And they live, how far away?
I mean, at least a couple hours, I think.
And so they had to get together, drive a couple hours,
get up on this old, like, logging road essentially
into the access point of the wilderness to the trailhead.
Pack in miles, right?
So this is like nine or 10 at night.
They said they'd be there at 8 in the morning.
So that's what it took.
Like, to get there and then miles back to this remote,
middle of the wilderness, hellhole area by 8 a.m.
So yeah, it was hours and hours and hours,
just to get there.
- And you can't time that.
You can't time that that he did.
- Talked about it.
- Yeah.
- But the way you talked about him,
that's whatever man wants.
- Yeah.
- Like that was a fucking man.
- Yes.
- But he earned it too.
You know, that's, and you're talking about,
you know, respect so important,
but you do have to earn respect.
- Right, right.
- And that went so, in that moment,
so there was me, Wayne, Tanner, my son,
James, my camera guy, Gideon,
and then he brought four guys.
So we had eight guys.
In that moment, there's not eight other men
I would rather have, or seven other men
besides me that I'd rather have there.
Because those to do that, it's special.
That's not everybody can do that shit.
But those guys, that was their purpose.
They could probably never be quote, "happier"
than in that moment, elk meat on our back,
miles to get to the trail head out.
And--
- Hundreds of pounds of meat.
- Yeah, a 300 pounds of meat.
So we waited at the butcher when I took the,
to get processed, 300 pounds of bone.meat.
That's not a bone on there.
So--
- Not including your camp, not including everything.
So you can act your boat.
- And the head, I took the head out.
So 300 pounds of meat plus everything else that we had.
But eight of us packed it out and it was the greatest day.
I can remember probably this season, you know?
I mean, it was, that was real.
That's what I say, that's real.
All this other shit, I don't know what this is.
But that was fucking real.
I killed a bull.
We have to get it out to take care of this meat.
Here's some badass mountain men who can help me.
Does it get any better?
- No.
- Yeah, I think I've known you for 13 or 14 years now.
And you've always been like that, oh.
You've never changed in that sense.
Like those things are important to you.
Those things are meaningful to you.
All right, it's incredible.
- No, it's, thank you.
But yeah, it's, yeah, I mean, that's all that fucking matters.
- Yeah, it's, most people never experience that.
That's what's wrong.
What's wrong is most people never experience
that, that insane, challenging experience
where your characters tested, your wills tested,
your commitment is tested.
- Just think.
So the video on this hunt came out last night
and it's called the bow hunter.
But there's a moment there after we had called,
after we'd got my bolted process.
So at that time, it was just me, Wayne, Tanner and James.
And we're just sitting there.
We had our tent set up.
The bolt, the meat's all hanging up.
Middle of the night, sitting there talking.
Eating, we're eating peak meals.
I'm like, why are you eating peak meals when you're happy?
- That's your happy meal there.
We didn't have a fire, but the meat was processed.
It wasn't time to eat or like to break down the bowl,
but that would have been great.
Tender ones over a fire would have been amazing.
We just didn't do it.
But the point is, in that moment,
there's no other place on earth, no other time in my life
that I would rather be.
That is, that was the pinnacle of life for me.
- That's a normal, natural experience for primitive man.
- Yes.
- That's what it is.
And it's how we stayed alive.
And the way I describe it to people,
there's a feeling, most people have caught a fish.
There's a feeling when someone catches a fish like,
even a child, when I took my daughter bass fishing,
she was like, six, I think she caught a bunch of bass.
And the feeling that she got when she hooked it,
like her eyes light up, it is built in us.
It's inside of us.
But catching a fish, bow hunting,
and in the mountains, killing an animal,
cooking it over a fire with your boys,
is that times a thousand.
It's a crazy built-in, we did what we have to do.
And we're looking forward to doing it again.
So that the intense experience, the difficulty, all of it,
you're sitting there, relax, you're eating,
and you have no doubt, you can't wait to do that again.
You're not like, man, I don't want to do this again.
This is nuts, you're like, yeah, I'm fucking tired,
but that was awesome. - Yeah, that was awesome.
You take the pack off like, whoa, dude.
You're sitting there by the fire like,
holy shit, you're drenched in sweat, your legs are gone.
Everybody's around smiling, like we fucking did it.
We did it.
- I just don't know how, I mean,
you hope the films can show that,
but gives you a peek to feel it. - Oh, yeah.
- I wish everybody could feel it, so they'd know.
It'll never happen, but it's life changing.
- Do you remember Israel Adesonia's speech
after he knocked out Pereira?
- Yes.
- What did he say?
He goes, I wish, he goes, people of the world.
I would play it, let's play it,
because it's fucking amazing. - Yeah, that's unreal.
- It's fucking amazing.
So this is Alex Pereira.
This is a guy that had beaten him three times.
- Three times, yeah.
He knocked him out in Kikboxing, knocked him out in MMA,
and then finally he knocked him out.
- Yeah.
- And this was like, everybody was terrified of him
taking this rematch.
Pereira can't be stopped, Pereira is a destroyer.
He's the scariest guy ever, but he asked me
to give him the microphone.
- New!
- Look at that.
(crowd cheering)
(crowd cheering)
- What a human.
(crowd cheering)
- Yeah, I love Style Bender.
- Oh, he's the best.
- Holy shit, he's the best.
- Yes sir.
- Hey, shut, shut, listen up, I wanna say something.
People, earth, I need to say something, listen to me.
I hope every one of you behind your screens
on this arena can feel this level of happiness
just one time in your life.
I hope all of you can feel how happy I am,
just one time in your life.
But guess what, you never feel this level of happiness
if you don't go for something in your own life
when they knock you down, when they try to (beep) on you,
when they talk about you, and they try to put their foot
on your neck, if you stay down, you will never ever
get that result, fortify your mind
and feel this level of happiness as you rise.
One time in your life, but I'm blessed
to be able to feel this (beep) again
and again and again and again and again.
(crowd laughing)
- That's so cool.
- Post-Fight speech of all time.
- You know what I love too, is like even in that moment,
like there's a little bit of blood
starting to trickle out of his nose, you know what I mean,
'cause he looks really good for just fighting,
but it's like there's little, you know, the sweat,
the blood trickling.
Oh, man, he's getting hit, man, he's getting hit.
- And his left leg was already destroyed.
- He didn't take many of those.
- No, he was talking to me about it afterwards,
he's like that motherfucker got me again.
I was thinking that before that,
he got my fucking leg again,
'cause that was a part of the problem with the first fight.
- Yeah.
- First had my May fight.
- His left leg was destroyed.
He couldn't move his left leg.
So even though he's like, Bob, and he's like,
I was okay, he goes, but I couldn't get out of there.
He goes, I couldn't move my fucking leg, man.
He goes, I was getting hit, but I was still there.
I was moving, like he was still moving around,
but he couldn't go away.
Like his leg was destroyed.
And that's what people don't think about when he,
like, especially those goddamn calf kicks.
- Yeah, he probably knew after the first one.
He was like, fuck, he got me again.
He destroys people's legs and then you're sitting duck
in front of the scariest puncher in the history of the division.
- Hands of stone then.
- Oh my God, he's fucking terrifying.
And for him to catch him with that perfect right hand,
off the cage like that,
oh my God, and then shoot the arrows into him.
He was like, greatest, the most fight celebration,
greatest post fight to be of all time, of all time.
Does that even a second place?
That really, except Rosinama Unis,
that one time when she was saying, I'm the best.
- Yeah, yeah, sure, that was pretty powerful.
- That was pretty powerful too.
- Jamie, could you find that tent scene
at the end of that video?
So, but here's what I was curious about,
is, oh, he did find it.
Yeah, like right here.
So, the difference between Israel's happiness
and this happiness.
- I'll do anything you want to do.
But, you know, you go until you're just sick of the weight
and you get it under the tree of the shade
and you get all kind of energized, come back,
drink some water, grab another.
And then mentally, you're not coming back to here.
- Right.
- I mean, you get it all across the creek and that flat.
- I mean, it doesn't get any more in the bottom.
(laughing)
- That was a packout,
but I wouldn't want it any other way.
Wayne, he had a horse packer set up
and then I had also talked to Cal Halliday
and when I was in there by myself on an opening weekend,
he said, hey, if you kill a bull in here by yourself,
he goes, let me know, send me a text or something.
I'll have four or five guys here within five hours
to help pack.
So, no, it wasn't an opening weekend,
but I'm like, I told Wayne that and I said,
he goes, who do you want to get hold of?
Do you want to get to hold a cow
or do you want to get hold of the horse packer?
And I'm like, I think I'd rather have cow
with some other bad ass mountain guys
and just share this packout with them.
- Yeah, but it's over if we go less of a jungle too.
- So these guys right here.
- But there he is.
- You don't want any other people
and Tanner's got so much weight on the form.
- Cal, they got up, I don't know what time,
three in the morning made it all the way there.
They said they'd be there at 8 a.m.
They were down at my bullet, 801.
And I don't, I mean, this is miles and miles and miles,
just, you know, just studs.
And so, yeah, it's like, I'll never forget that.
I'll never forget the whole, obviously the whole hunt,
but that morning was a special one.
Cal, Eric, Keith, and Ryan.
- Brought it for massive.
- Yeah, so thankful for that, baby.
- That bullet is massive.
- So it's like, here's it,
but that's a juxtaposition is, to me,
that was my Israel at Asania moment
about I will never be happier.
But look how different those moments are.
One's in front of a huge crowd,
millions of people watching,
being, you know, getting all that attention
from all those people.
And then I guarantee just as happier, happier right there.
Isn't that crazy?
- It is crazy.
- Yeah, that's your thing, you know, fan your thing.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- I always talk about that, like, people just trying to find
- What's your thing? - Yeah.
My thing's the outdoors and bound.
- So Israel's thing is fighting.
So for him, that's the pinnacle.
For us, whatever your thing is, get to the pinnacle, right?
That's the lesson.
- Find happiness in that.
- Do you think-- - Whatever it is.
Whatever it is for you.
- That you talking about your daughter catching that fish,
and it's like this primal instinct inside of her
that just flares up, that fighters have that same feeling.
Like, it's a primal feeling.
- Oh, 100%, yeah.
- It's a little more conflicted, Doug, depending upon
how bad you hurt your opponent.
When you hurt him really bad, it's a very conflicting moment
'cause you know that could've been you.
Some guys don't get that feeling.
Some guys, they did that good fuck him,
but a lot of guys, it's like, woof.
There's some guys that knock a guy out real bad,
and then they almost want to retire afterwards.
They're just like, I don't want to do that
to anybody anymore, you know?
Especially guys that have killed guys.
Like Ray Mancini, when he killed Dukku Kim,
I don't think he was ever the same again.
There's a few guys like that in history
that have had boxing matches where they killed a guy,
and then they were kind of never the same after that.
- Dude, that's some scary shit.
'Cause you realize this is what you're doing, you know?
- Yeah, mentality.
- This could lead to that happening to you,
and you think about your kids watching on TV and crying
or even worse there.
While you're getting beat up, I always freak out
when guys bring the kids, I'm like, oh man.
Bring a kid to a fight, you know?
- Yeah.
- I've seen guys getting knocked out in front of their kids,
and it's particularly devastating.
Particularly when you really like the guy.
- Mm-hmm.
- It's rough.
It's a rough way to make a living.
But those guys, when they get that belt strapped around 'em,
when their hands get raised in the whole audience,
screams and cheers, it's like, whoa, that's a special moment.
- It's a special moment that very few people
ever get to experience.
- Unless they kill a bull in their wilderness.
- I don't even know if it's the same.
It's a different kind of happiness.
I think yours is more sustained, yours lasts longer.
- That's what I say.
- I don't know, like Israel said he was happy.
Is that, I guess that's what it is.
- But you know what the reality is,
after the happiness dies off for a couple of days,
then you start thinking about your next fight,
and you immediately start getting that anxiety again.
- I think that's a good drive in life though, right?
'Cause you don't just do that elk hunt and be like,
I'm done now, you know, it's like not what's the next one.
Yeah, and it's like that constant pursuit.
- And it's also like constantly recognizing that
you're always going to be at least trying to get better.
That's, you're always trying to get better.
Anything that's gonna give you like real happiness
is going to be very difficult
because you're not really going to ever be able to master it.
Whatever it is.
It's like that's where it is, the real,
it's in the pursuit of it.
And along the way, recognizing that you consistently
keep getting better, but it's like there's a dream
that you're chasing that you're never gonna get to.
You never gonna get to bo-hunting perfection.
It doesn't exist.
You can get really close.
You've gotten really, really close.
But we're human.
And it's the wild.
And there's all sorts of weird variables that happen.
There's branches and sticks and wind and this and that.
And it's impossible to be perfect.
- Yeah.
- And that's part of the magic of it.
Part of the magic of it is that when you're in the moment
and it's all happening, it's all so open ended.
Like any result can take place.
You really do not know how this is all gonna go down.
You haven't seen it all play out.
And you might have imagined how it's gonna play out.
But it's gonna play out in unique situations.
Some of them will be similar.
Some of them will be completely different.
- Yeah.
- And you've got to figure it out.
Like you were telling me that crazy story
that I was talking to you about the podcast
where you're shooting down at this bowl
like from like a cliff.
- Yeah.
- Straight down.
- Yeah, San Carlos this year was a,
so I arranged the bowl is a huge cliff.
And what I thought is I'd get up there
and I'd be able to see the flat.
And there were some bowls down.
There's a tough year in Arizona's the drought.
But from that cliff I thought that'd be a great vantage point
to see where these bowls weren't playing a stock.
So get way up there.
Actually they're sheep right above us too.
It's like crazy, rugged country.
But get it there on that cliff.
And I'm kinda looking out over the expanse there.
And then I look straight down below me.
There's this big bowl and I straight down.
And I'm like, it's like if you're honey mule deer,
you know, they always bet up against a cliff.
'Cause so their backs protected,
the winds coming up, they can monitor
the down below them with their nose.
They know nothing's coming from the back.
That's how mule deer bed to survive.
Well, this bowl had done that same thing.
And it was, it had just stood up from the base of the cliff.
And I look down, I arrange it 42 yards,
which people who know if the range finders
telling you to shoot for 42,
that means straight down.
That means it's probably close to 60 yards.
You know, because the range finder does it calculation.
If you shoot flat, that's the gravity effects one thing.
If you shoot straight down, gravity has less effect.
So it's saying, even though it's further,
you would shoot for less distance is how that works.
So it told me to shoot for 42.
That means it's probably 60 straight down.
And that's a long shot with a bow.
And then I had to shooting straight down.
I thought that I was like gonna go straight through a spine.
'Cause I was straight above 'em.
I'm like, well, when you come right behind the shoulders,
straight through a spine into his vitals.
I thought that should do it.
So I hit that bowl like about,
I would say an inch off the spine.
I show it, there's a video of it on that.
The video we just watched for people who were interested.
But about an inch off that spine into his chest
and the bowl went about 100 yards.
But yeah, it was, I've never done a shot like that before
in my life.
You think about different scenarios.
I had never even thought about one like that on a bowl
at that distance, at that angle.
So that is even, so where?
Yeah, it's back.
This is the, that's the Winahawk bowl.
But it's back, Jamie, about,
I was talking about getting ready for this hunt.
And it shows like a few clips of the bowl I killed in Colorado
with an Arizona bowl.
Then I did another hunt in Utah.
And I killed a bowl there to get prepared
for the, the Oregon hunt.
But yeah, it was just, I never even really thought
that that shot would be a potential one.
The Oregon hunt is crazy because of the wilderness.
It's so dense.
Yes, it's, it's, it's like a rain for us.
It's like Jurassic Park.
And that's in Eastern Oregon.
That's the dry part of the state.
That's crazy.
But it's such, it's such a hole there.
So much water moisture down there that it turned
into like Jurassic Park without bowl coming in, bugling.
And it was like a dinosaur.
I would say, but there's nothing that matches that.
That aspect of alcunding makes it so much cooler.
It's the sound they make when they're coming in.
And it's just like all of your fucking pores pop up.
It's like you get goose bumps all over your body.
You back your neck, the hair stands up.
It's like the scream is like, whoa.
It's so, it is my favorite sound.
It's amazing.
It's my favorite.
When you hear, when you're close,
and there's an elk screaming through the woods
and he's coming close towards you,
that's the thrill of that is like nothing else.
Like nothing else.
- No.
- And people who haven't heard it, they hear that.
And they're like, what the fuck is that?
- Right, they don't demon.
- It's weird that there's an animal on this planet
that makes that noise.
If we hadn't done this our whole lives,
and we heard that would be like, what is that?
- What is going on?
If you had done what Adam did in Japan and not research,
like what kind of animals are in the area
when you were camping out and you heard that scream?
You'd be like, I'm like, we're surrounded by demons.
- Now, I've had people tell me stories,
like there's something really weird in the woods there.
And then, but you find out it's like,
fellow deer or red deer living in there,
and it's like just a breeding cage,
and they're just roaring and just people like,
what the fuck is that?
- It's like, actually, it's just a deer.
- Stag have the craziest roar.
- It's such a weird thing.
- Elkar actually make a real pussy sound.
- Compared to it.
- Yeah, for this song.
- Well, like an African lion,
'cause I heard those when I was hunting over there,
like they're by the river.
And so, like an African lion in the middle of the night,
they're like, oh my God.
It just like reverberates through the whatever we were,
jopples.
- If there's anything that lights up your DNA,
the sound of a lion must just chill your fucking cells.
- Nothing like that either.
- Nothing like that either.
- But, you know, here's an exciting thing.
So, for people listening to that,
maybe didn't grow up hunting.
What, we were talking about this in the green room last night
when we were getting high off all those.
- We weren't smoking, but we got high.
- It's, what's crazy is nowadays, you know,
we're 58, you're 45, right?
But, we're just getting even better physically.
So, you say you can't master bow hunting, right?
Because you only had a certain window,
like normally how hunting works is,
you're young and strong, all the endurance in the world,
but you don't know shit, right?
You don't have the experience.
So, by the time you get the experience
in your old and broke down,
you can't take advantage of the experience.
So, you have to have a wisdom.
The wisdom you gained when you're young,
you utilize when you're old to kill.
Well, now, we can gain all that experience in wisdom,
like I've been, I've been, you know,
hunting for 40 some years,
and I'm also at the best I've ever been physically.
You marry those two up, look out.
- That's what synances that didn't exist before.
- Right, so like we go to ways to well today
and get stem cell and get, you know,
the IV treatments and get everything else
to build a operate at our absolute prime
at 58 years old with 40 years of experience.
- Yeah.
- That's tough.
That's, you're gonna have success if you do it right.
So, yeah, not everybody's gonna be in that situation
where they grew up hunting like me,
but you even think about jelly roll at 41 years old.
So, he just started bow hunting.
You started bow hunting in your 40s,
and now you've been doing it for, you know, 15 years,
and you're getting better.
So, there's hope for even people 40, 50 or whatever,
with this new science and treatment and supplements
and things like that, you can still be very active
and still take on new intents and devers
like bow hunting or hunting, just hunting in general,
and have success, and it might change your entire life.
Like jelly roll is a different fucking person.
- Yeah.
- And two years, he's a different person.
A different human.
- Totally human.
- That should be exciting for people listening.
- Yeah.
- They should learn that you could do it too.
And it's that, and having more energy,
like say if you're not into bow hunting,
you say if you're not, you know, like,
I don't wanna be a marathon runner, whatever it is.
If your body is healthier, whatever the thing you do,
- You're gonna be better.
- You don't have more energy.
- You're gonna be better at it.
- You're gonna be better at it.
You're gonna have, like, why do people like,
cognitively decline when they get older?
Well, big part of it is you're declining overall.
Everything's declining.
Everything about you is declining.
Of course, your brain is declining as well.
Like, your entire existence is fading.
You're, but the more you can have energy,
the more you have vitality, the more you can do what,
I don't care if you play chess,
whatever the fuck it is that you like to do, paint,
whatever it is you like to do, the more energy you have,
the more energy you'll be able to apply
to that thing you do.
- The more enjoyable it is,
the better quality of life, the happier you are.
- Including all the other stuff, just being with your family,
you'll have more energy to do stuff.
You'll have more life.
You'll have more life energy.
- Here's one mindset I've tried to take on,
with, especially with hunting,
'cause that's all I really fucking care about,
is improving and learning on every time.
And I could even think about like,
I was telling somebody, I don't know who,
but on every, I try to learn something on every stock.
And when I think about, when you kill the stable
the other day, so we're there.
And you have to weigh out so many things on a stock,
when you're getting ready to kill an animal
or potentially kill an animal.
But we're thinking about, okay, we have the wind,
the wind is, that's the biggest thing with balancing.
So I knew where the wind was,
but then also it's like, well, do we go, stay in the shade,
so the sun wouldn't blind you as it was going down.
But if we stay in the shade,
we're not perfectly downwind.
So I'm like, well, the sun's gonna set,
the winds change, 'cause thermals change.
If we're to the side in the shade,
so you don't have to deal with the sun,
then when that wind becomes unstable,
it's more likely to smell us.
So we should be all the way downwind,
but that means we're gonna have to shoot
before the sun gets too low towards not blinding you.
To get to the side, then you have to figure out
what's a path to get there
to where we're not making noise for the animal to hear.
Well, it's straight to the,
I don't know if you remember that tree,
and I said, straight to that tree.
And from that tree, then I was thinking,
you should have a lane, 'cause there was brush all around,
but it looked to me like, from that tree,
you would have a lane to shoot at 28 yards,
but you're still factoring all these, the wind, the sun,
the everything else, what's the animal gonna do?
It's just so fascinating to think about,
but I know some people hunt,
and I don't think they think about it in those details,
you know what I mean?
They're just kinda like, oh, there's an animal,
what do I do?
But like, that's not how you mastered the moment.
You mastered the moment, and I said this a lot of times, too,
on many of these hunts, I was telling Jelly Roll this,
I was like, everything matters.
Everything.
The little thing matters.
The big things, obviously matter.
But everything matters.
And that's what hunting teaches us.
And in life, you can make it through regular life
on this fake world that I keep talking about,
by ignoring a lot of things, not on a hunt.
- Yeah, we had to think about a lot of things on that stalk.
- On a hunt, everything matters.
- One of the big ones that we had to think about
was as that sun was dropping.
So we were standing there waiting for this, able to get up.
It had bedded, and it didn't know we were there,
and we creeped into the spot we were.
- Slowly, got it.
- So do you remember that technique?
- Yeah. - Remember what I said?
If you move slow enough, they won't pick it up.
- Right, because they look for movement.
- So we were moving like, you know,
like an inch every 30 seconds.
We were like barely moving.
- 'Cause what I've found is animals,
I've been in the wide open on a caribou, went right at it,
but so slow, it was just like, that can't be anything.
Nothing does that.
- I saw it was movement.
- No, but steady and slow, and they just won't spook.
- Yeah, and we had to figure out where to stand,
and then when we got, as we were standing there,
we were standing there for quite a while.
I realized, oh, this sun is going to be impossible,
'cause it's slowly lowering in the sky,
and it's literally above this table's head now.
And I'm like, okay, we don't get this thing to stand up.
I'm not going to be able to see it,
'cause I had my hat on, right?
So I blocked myself from the hat,
and then I was trying to train my eyes
to just look at it through, you know,
just like the haze of the sun.
I was like, this is going to be a real problem.
So we decided, let's get 'em to stand up.
So Cam took his arrow out of his quiver
and started tapping on this branch,
and then started like moving towards it.
And Sable or Beasts, bro?
- Yeah.
- First of all, those motherfuckers,
they killed lions occasionally.
Like they get attacked and they're fierce.
So it wasn't exactly easy to spook.
- Right.
- So you had to kind of like move towards a little bit,
and then it started grunting at you.
Like, fuck off, fuck off, bitch.
- Fuck off, bitch.
- And then finally it stood up, and when it stood up,
we got 'em, but it was a shot where I was like,
I got to do this real soon, because otherwise,
I'm not going to be able to see.
Fortunately I could, and I can get the pin
right where it needed to be, but it was like,
I was telling you afterwards, I was like,
I avoid shooting into the sun.
When I have my targets, I always put a target in the other way,
so I'm like, I can't do that anymore.
Now I have to start shooting into the sun sometimes.
- Practice it all.
- You got to get that feeling,
because that had happened also on a hunt with Tom Land.
We were up in Utah, and this bull is a nice bull.
It was about 60 yards, and it was coming across this ridge.
The sun was right in my eyes.
And he's like, why didn't you shoot?
I was like, I just couldn't.
It was too blurry.
It was too, the sun was right fucking there.
And I remember thinking that at that time,
this was years ago, thinking at that time,
I needed to shoot into the sun, and I never did.
I never did.
- But it was like, it won't come up.
I just won't take the shot.
I'll do what I did that.
I won't take the shot.
- And if you're not comfortable,
you don't have to take the shot.
- In this situation, I was like, it's not a long shot.
It's only 28 yards, and it's a big animal.
And I'm pretty confident I got this.
I was like, I had to factor all these things in,
and then not let doubt creep into my head.
You know, stay totally calm.
So there's all these things going on simultaneously.
- It's a lot.
It's a lot to manage a lot.
But also a lot to a lot of factors to consider,
and then learn from.
- Yeah.
- I learned a lot from that hunt.
I learned a lot.
First of all, I learned how fucking tough stable are.
- That's the same experience I told you I had with Neil Guy,
that I shot that Neil Guy in South Texas,
and it ran like I didn't even hit it.
I hit it perfect.
The arrow went right through him.
It was the arrow we found the arrow,
30 yards past where I hit.
It was covered in blood, so we knew he was dead.
But he ran like he never even got hit.
He ran full speed like a cheetah.
It was crazy.
And the guy that I was with was like,
"Come on, they grew up around tigers."
These things evolved around tigers.
Like they don't just take getting hit
and go, "Oh no, I'm in trouble."
They fucking run.
They're so tough, and they barely bleed.
That's the other thing about these animals
that grow up around big predators.
Boy, they clog up their holes really quick.
They don't leave much of a blood trail.
It's not like an elk or a deer.
It's different.
- Yeah, I think Adam explains this well.
Sometimes you talk about when you hit 'em,
if they're stretched out,
then when they're not stretched out,
it just changes that the entrance wound,
and the exit wound, if there is one,
it just changes.
There's different layers of muscle and hide over it,
where it just blocks up that blood.
- It seems like they clog up quicker too, just period.
Like whatever their anatomy is, the differences,
when you hit them, they just don't bleed much.
- Yeah, I got a buddy that always, you know,
someone's like, "It was the perfect shot,"
and it's like, "Well, actually, it wasn't,
'cause it'd be dead already."
You know, so it's like, and I know what you're saying,
but the truth is, double lungs is double lungs,
and there's so many variations.
Like that reaction, they close up the gap,
or what broader do you use?
And if the animal's breathing out
when the arrow shoots through the lungs, or whatever,
it's just taking a bunch of oxygen in, you know,
- So it's a larger target.
- Yeah, and there's all those different,
it plus just more energy to run on.
And then, you know, you'll see certain hunters
at shoots, something that's not even dead yet,
and they're like, "Yeah!"
And start, "Yeah, who?"
And it's like, "What, shut the fuck up?"
Because that brings on on the adrenaline rush,
animals can run for, whereas you just want a nice,
relaxed setup, you know, and just a hit.
They don't know what's going on, the beauty of the bow,
'cause it's so quiet, there's not a loud gunshot
behind it or anything.
And then, you know, just, so they relax,
they don't want to run as fast,
they want to give up earlier,
because they've got nothing to spook from or fight from.
So, you know, - And they don't know what happened.
- Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah, sometimes they think they got jabbed
by another bull or something, like, "What happened?"
- Yeah. - 'Cause everything's crazy,
they're all rotten and screaming at each other,
and clashing antlers, and all of a sudden,
"Wah!"
Like, "What the fuck is that?"
- Right, Utah, this year, the bull that I shot,
he'd just been in the fight of another bull,
so he was all revved up from that other bull.
So, I literally hit him, and he just,
he thought he got poked by an antler from another bull,
you know, and he went 20 yards,
was standing for 14 seconds, dropped dead,
nice, beautiful, peaceful, right in front of me.
They don't all happen like that,
but that's what we're after, you know.
- That's what you're after, that's how you practice,
that's how you shoot so many arrows.
To have it drop right in front is the greatest thing ever.
- And I think that does impact the taste of the meat too,
if you don't have them shoot that adrenaline back
through their body, where it's a peaceful death,
I think it does impact the taste.
- That's what they say.
- Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
I mean, don't do that with when they want to call animals,
like, or if they want to shoot animals rather,
not call them shoot them for commercial purposes,
they shoot them in the head, right?
- They put a bolt in their head, but yeah, I mean.
- No, I mean, like, in one eye?
- Oh, when they shoot, like, Axis deer for you,
they shoot them in the head, definitely.
No, but like even when they kill cattle,
they're not getting those things around.
- Right, of course, of course.
You want them to be as calm as possible.
The opposite of what that mountain line did to that cow.
- I'm just imagining that.
Imagine you eat that cow, that cow will be like,
"You got an anxiety!"
It's probably in the meat itself.
- I got issues.
Taking it back to the health journey,
how you were saying, like, you know,
where we are now with, you know, modern treatments
and wellness is incredible.
Like, I feel like, I feel like my body's the best
that's ever been, you know?
And I'm obviously the oldest I've ever been,
which is crazy to think of.
Like, how can I feel better than I do?
How can I feel better now than I did in my early 20s?
You know, we've probably had any injuries and stuff like that.
So it's cool.
And I've got you to thank for that
by introducing me to Brigham and Waste the World, so.
- Oh, my pleasure.
I want more people to know about it.
I want everybody to be healthy.
It's possible.
You can get healthier.
Like, look at Jelly Roll.
The guy was 500 plus pounds, and now he's running.
- That's such incredible story.
- 10K, the day before he came to the studio,
and then when we went to the gym together,
and he ran 2.6 miles on the treadmill,
while he was talking, we're laughing.
He's juked around.
They don't know me, son.
He's having a good old time.
And, you know, he just seemed so happy.
We got in the sauna together, we're laughing.
It's like, he's just a different guy.
He's got so much, and he's so excited about this journey
that he's on.
This journey of self-improvement,
this journey of health.
You know, he's going to be there for his kids.
He's going to be there for his wife now.
He's worried about dying before.
You know, he told a story about like laying on his arm,
and he couldn't get up.
He was trapped, and he didn't have a bed.
In bed, he couldn't get up.
He couldn't, he thought he was going to die.
He's like, I'm so big that I'm laid on my arm,
and I don't have that strength to get out of this position
because I'm so big.
- What a change.
- And now he's running and bow hunting.
- He's substance now, like, that substance
will just keep him going, you know, to find those things,
and it makes him happy.
- You know, the problem is a lot of people
oftentimes compare themselves to other people
that are already on that path.
This is another thing that we talked about.
You just get on the path.
Don't worry about how people are ahead of you.
Just, you'd be ahead of yourself.
Next week, you're ahead of where you were this week.
The week after that, you'll be ahead of you.
It's just a path.
Just get, so what if other people bit on the path
further than you?
Like, that's how you get better at stuff.
And that is what's exciting about life
is this path of improvement, and whatever you do,
and actually being a human being, be a better human.
You can do that.
Everybody can get on that path.
- Yeah, yeah, it's just, that's what I told Joey is that,
you know, you can wander around off the path
for your whole life and never really have like,
fuck, I never really figured it out.
But once you make it, like where he's on, you know,
being healthy, eating better, exercising,
you know, the mountains have given him,
I always say the mountains heal or nature heals.
So he's there now.
It's like, yeah, of course there's people who are way ahead
'cause they've been on it longer.
There's people not quite on it.
Maybe they're gonna be faster than him,
and they pass them.
But all on the right path, head in the right direction,
that's a beautiful place to be, and that's where he's at.
- It is, and one of the things that I said to Jelly,
when we were on the podcast, I was like,
what you're doing is inspiring millions of people
to live a better life.
100% what you're doing is so beneficial
to human beings all over the world.
Because now millions of people have seen that podcast.
Millions of people have heard that story.
Millions of people have seen those clips
that have been shared, all throughout social media,
and how many people got excited by that,
and it gave them fuel and energy to wanna go do something.
It gave them that inspiration
that we all desperately crave,
to wanna go out and take those first fucking steps.
And then once you do that,
then you're operating on momentum, and it's so much easier.
This is another thing that people have to understand.
The first steps are the hardest.
It's so hard to move.
It's so hard to get going.
But once you get going, then you operate on momentum.
Once you have a good day, then you go, I did it,
I had a good day, let's do it again tomorrow,
and then you get excited about it.
You look forward to waking up.
And then you get through it that day,
like we fucking did it again.
And now I'm looking forward to it.
Now I'm eating healthier, now I cut off the sugar,
now I'm drinking water with electrolytes.
And now I'm feeling better, I have more in it,
and just keep going, just keep going.
And momentum is so much easier than that first step.
The first step of changing your life is so hard,
because we're just so afraid of pain.
We're so afraid of suffering.
We're so afraid of discomfort.
We've been programmed to think that discomfort
is a bad thing.
It's not.
It's not.
It's necessary.
I think that Jolie roll might,
I mean, I think we've talked about this,
but could he impact more people
than anyone ever has in that regard?
A hundred percent.
We were talking about that today.
A hundred percent.
Because it's like, it's not like, you know, even Israel,
or your favorite NFL guy, or NBA, they're elite, right?
So when they succeed, you're like, oh, fuck, of course.
You know, he's six, eight, two, 60.
Of course he's going to be great.
But when you see somebody like Jolie roll
who came from five hundred and forty pounds,
that's like, he's already at the furthest end of like,
you know, like what you'd have to overcome.
Yes.
And for him to do that,
anybody else is closer to the goal
that he was at that time.
So it's like, nobody's in worse shape, really.
Right.
You know, you heard it.
You can't be in worse shape, you know.
Right.
And if he's doing it, everyone can do it.
Everyone who has that something inside him.
And maybe he's going to give them that something.
100% and he's way more famous
than anybody who's ever done this before.
Right. That's the most important aspect of it.
He's loved by so many people.
So how many Jolie roll fans loved him
because he was like them.
He was big like them.
Super talented, amazing guy who's also big.
Like, oh my God, I thought I was a big slob
and no one's going to love me.
Maybe while everybody loves jelly roll.
So they love jelly roll.
And then also jelly rolls change his life.
Like, how many people are sitting there watching him
and listening to him going, I think I could do it.
He did it, I think I can do it.
Yeah.
And he just do it the way he, you know,
like he didn't start out running marathons.
He tried to go for a walk.
Yeah. You know what I mean?
He would call his walk his run
because he couldn't run.
But he'd say tell his family's wife
and that he's going to go out on his run.
There's not one step of running.
But the mindset, the story he told himself was he was running.
So it's that self talk.
You know, how we talked to ourselves is important.
So he would tell himself, I'm going to go run
even though there's not a step of running involved.
But that led to running.
That mindset, that approach of like, I'm winning today.
I'm winning the start of run as a walk, but it's going to be a run.
You know, that's got to be a massive mental achievement for him too
because I'm sure that he had a lot of mind weight to lose as well
because he was in jail, right?
Substance abuse, no doubt.
Probably a lot of, like that's a lot of negative stuff in someone's head.
So to lose that as well, and you told me that he's such a positive person.
So to like, you know, he lost a bunch of weight, which is incredible.
But what he's done to his mind, which we may never know,
is really incredible too.
Like, like, that's what I was saying to you just modern.
This might be one of the best modern day stories
of a person changing their life when you look at jelly, yeah.
Yeah, and it couldn't be a better representative of someone
who has gone through the struggle and then come out this amazing person.
Like, he's an amazing guy.
Like, there's very few humans that are so kind and friendly and warm.
And when he hugs you, he hugs you with his soul.
Like, he hugs you with his whole body and his soul.
And he's like, like a perfect person to be the inspiration
for people to improve their life.
Well, and that was so touching.
Like, when you shared the grand old opera, yeah, inclusion for jelly roll
from Craig Morgan, and he said, Joe, can I get a hug?
I mean, to, to me, and that, to me, that was like so endearing
but also so important to show that it's okay for men to say, yeah.
Yeah.
Can I get a hug?
I mean, it was a man crying.
It was one of the most inspirational things you could ever watch.
I mean, but it takes a certain type or it's one of one
who does stuff like that, like him, his heart.
That's what I say, he's a big man, but he's got the biggest heart of anybody
I've ever met.
And that was an example of it, like he just wanted love.
Yeah.
He's a, he's a very important figure in our culture.
He really is.
He really is, you know, especially now, me always was.
His music just alone is important because it's beautiful music.
But the beautiful music is the expression of a beautiful soul, you know,
and now he's also on this path of self-improvement, and it's amazing.
Yeah, that title of his album, "Beautifully Broken."
Yeah.
I mean, it's so perfect.
Yeah, it is.
And he's, he was broken, probably will always be broken in some ways, we all are.
But he's putting himself back together and man, he's...
Are we all broken or do we all have negative thoughts from the past?
Are we telling ourselves we're broken?
Yeah.
Maybe that's our self-talk.
Obviously we're functional.
So we're not broken.
You know, it's not what that we're broken, it's just the doubt, the self-doubt.
Well, everyone's gonna, you're a human being.
The only way you figure out how to get good at something is you have to,
it has to be a puzzle.
Puzzles include doubt.
Yeah.
It's always gonna be there.
Hmm.
There's no getting around it.
It's like...
It's not.
But it's part, it ends up being the beauty of it, right?
Yes, that's it.
Yeah, that's the beauty of it.
And then whatever you do, doesn't, you don't have to bow on.
It's like, you should probably should.
But you don't have to.
Yeah.
It could be anything else.
But yeah, just any struggle in life.
Yeah.
You know, that's how I look at anything like that, that's testing or trialing or...
And it should be, it should be interesting for you to, it should be an interesting thing.
That's the, people also have this weird habit of looking at the mind in terms of only
being valuable in human created endeavors.
Like the mind only being valuable in mathematics.
The mind only being valuable in your ability to recite literature and your knowledge that
you've gained through schooling.
Like no, no, the mind manages stressful situations too.
That's an important aspect of intelligence as your intelligence in being able to navigate
difficult things.
That is all your mind.
And using your mind, like bow hunting has so much, so much, so many elements of intelligence
that are woven into it.
And the difference between a successful person who bow hunts and an unsuccessful person
is experience and practice, but also the mind being able to learn from each individual
situation and experience and get better and accumulate all this knowledge over time.
You know, it's got a deep, deep learning curve, it's very deep.
And the people that don't experience it and that have this classification in their head
of what intelligence is, intelligence means you got a PhD.
I know a lot of people with PhD that are fools.
They're fools, they're emotional children, they're filled with ego and resentment and
they're shitty and nasty to people, they're fools.
So they're not smart, they're just, they have a functional mind that they've applied
to human endeavors only.
And they've never done the big thing, never done the whole package, never put it all together.
Yeah.
I think another key to being intelligent, I don't know if they're key, but having kids,
I think, is a big part of growth and to me it's like I lump, I can tell it's just life
experience into the package we'd call intelligence, but like hunting teaches us that, of course,
but also raising kids and being responsible for a family.
Oh yeah.
I think that's another, it's like, yes, school doesn't teach you that shit and like the
degree you got doesn't, doesn't signify that, but I don't know, I think that's a big
part of it too.
It's a giant learning experience, that's for damn sure.
And it also teaches you way more compassion.
It just teaches you way more loving and kind and, and you also just, you understand from
watching a baby become an amazing adult human being, you get to understand all the elements
that are involved in this child's development and all the trials and tribulations, how you
got to like let them fall sometimes and then help them pick themselves back up and talk
to them through it and when they're down, explain like I'm down to, I'm always down, I've
fucked up everything, I was, whenever my kids would do anything wrong, one of the things
I'd always tell, say to them, if I was upset at them, I would say listen, I did everything
that you did, I've done all this stuff, it's okay, but you can't do it and this is why.
Like I've screwed up everything, I've done things I shouldn't have done, I do exactly what
you're doing right now, I've done it even worse, you're a better kid than I was.
Yeah.
I always say that.
Like I'm without fault, I always say I've done it all, but I've got through it on the
other side.
Now I'm your dad and the reason why I'm telling you this is because I love you.
And I'm not telling, I'm not, I'm not trying to like be upset at you because I'm mean,
like I'm trying to help you live a better life and that's how I try to communicate with
them about it.
So in my head that perspective opens up other lanes of intelligence, that's what I'm saying.
It's like you can't be the your highest form without that.
Right, you're challenged, you're challenged by it.
And you're also challenged by the discipline of it, you know, you have people that rely
on you and that is, you can't fuck that off.
You can't just like not show up for work.
You can't just, you know, I just feel like sleeping in today and fucking, I'm taking a month
off.
Like you can't do that.
If people that rely on you and also you're setting an example for them that they're
going to learn from, the people that, and your kids are a great example of that, the children
of people that are very disciplined almost always have a higher threshold of discipline.
I notice it.
I see it in your kids for sure.
I see it in my kids.
They have more of an understanding of what's necessary in order to get things done and
to be successful.
Now if you're a person who's a parent and you shirk every responsibility, you lie, you
steal, you do things, you take shortcuts, you're not truthful, you're whatever you're
doing where your kids get to see, like, oh, my parent is kind of a fuckhead.
You know, my parent is kind of, one of two things happens, either you emulate your parents
and you be kind of a fuckhead or you go, I don't like that and I'm never going to be
like that.
My friends that grew up with alcohol parents, they've never had a drink in their fucking
life and they never will.
They're like, I am never touching that shit.
I see what that's like because I saw my dad lose his fucking job, lose his house, lose
this, lose that, get arrested for DWI, get in a bar fight, my dad's a fucking loser and
I'm not going to be that guy.
But it's a toss up or some might emulate that.
Some might emulate that.
Yeah.
You see your dad's a drug addict, like, let me try it.
I grew up like that with a couple of closer friends and these closer friends were like,
I'm never going to be like my dad.
Like, well, to the core, we were like that.
We're never going to be like our fathers and that's one of the reasons I don't drink because
my father was a horrible alcoholic.
And even though when I drink, I'm happy, I'm just turned off it.
So I don't want to do it.
And I guess I've gone long enough now that doesn't interest me.
And then I had another friend that I cut off because he turned out to be exactly like
he's dad.
And even though he, the whole time he was like me, I'm never going to be like my father.
I'm going to be the opposite for some reason.
Some people just go down the same path.
I think it's also the stress of life.
It's sometimes it's overwhelming.
You know, this thing that we look forward to in bow hunting, this like not knowing what's
going to happen.
Like, you get out there.
It's early in the morning.
You put your pack on.
You know, what's going to happen today?
Who knows?
Some people hate that feeling, right?
They hate that feeling of not knowing what's going to happen.
And the uncertainty about your career and job is a weird uncertainty.
It depends on so many factors that are sometimes out of your control.
And people just, they get overwhelmed and they just want to escape.
They just want to escape.
And maybe they're doing a job they don't enjoy doing.
And then the only time they feel good is when they're drunk.
So they just get, get off work and they can't wait to meet their boys and have a laugh.
And next thing you know, you drink in and one day turns into a month and that's just,
that's distraction.
They want to be distracted off their life or whatever.
In this world, we'll give you a lot of distractions.
You could play video games and fucking get hammered and do a hard one.
Yeah.
Whatever it is.
A fill in the blank, man.
You could find a lot of stuff that's not going to be beneficial for you.
Yeah.
It's one thing that, I think the, well, some drinking and whatever, but I think the biggest
negative thing a parent can offer their kids is blaming other, like, it's always somebody
else's fault.
Right.
So it's like this discussion at the house, you know, because kids hear everything, right?
So when the dad's coming home and he's bitching about his boss or the guy at work or he's
getting fucked over for this or I could do that too, but that guy kissed ass.
That's why he got that or the must be nice, whatever, like these excuse makers, you're
just fucking sabotaging the kids.
It's just that you never get anywhere by blaming other people for where you're at.
And so many people do that because they won't accept personal responsibility for their actions
or for their place in life.
And I don't even think it necessarily.
It's their fault.
I think a lot of them have never seen the example of an extraordinary person who doesn't
do that.
They're not, it's rare to find a person, unfortunately, in this world, especially in society.
It's rare to find a person of great character, a person who's just got impeccable character
and is always truthful and works really hard and is loved by a lot of people.
It's rare.
It's rare.
And so they've never experienced it.
They haven't been around it.
So they don't even know what it is.
Right.
They don't know that they're sabotaging.
Yeah.
And sometimes that's one of the real places where a guy like Jelly Roll can change people's
lives.
It's because he does talk about all of the negative shit that he's experienced and all
of the negative influences and all the bad people that he was around and how he was
living that life.
He was trapped in that way.
Yeah.
And now he's not anymore.
And so the big things, substance, criminal, lie, overweight, those are usually the big
things and he overcame all of them.
So it's like, that's where that power comes from, where it to influence so many people.
It's because, so what was your issue again?
Yeah.
Well, Jelly Roll, yeah.
He overcame that.
Wait, was it something else?
Oh, that too?
I mean, it's everything, all the big things he's overcome.
Yeah.
So what, what else is there?
What else are you going to blame?
You just got to find a thing, find a thing, get on the path.
Yeah.
Get moving.
Get moving, bitch.
Get moving, bitch.
I'm going to get the bathroom story.
All right.
All right.
See, I told you.
It's got that Australian bladder.
It's upside down.
No, it's the IV.
I told him.
I said, I said, hey, put all that shit in like this much, whatever fluid, because I don't
have to take a piss.
I wonder if it works this good that way.
They made it super concentrated.
Did they really?
Yeah, they did.
That's hilarious.
Why not just like, wait and pee?
I don't mind peeing.
But every time I've done that, when I come here after an IV, I do the same thing after
pee.
Yeah.
I know.
Or after the sauna, because after the sauna, I always drink this giant 64 ounce thing
of water and electrolytes and then like an hour and a half in the podcast.
I'm like, oh, no.
That hits.
Joey Roll, he learned that lesson in the blind because we were sitting for hours.
And like if you haven't ever been in position where, you know, you can't just get out and
go pee or whatever, then you're like, oh, I didn't know what this is.
Holding, you know, he said he was going to piss his pants.
It's like, he's like, had to make a hole in the blind and pee and to cover it up because
I was like, okay, just make a hole, cover it up with dirt, whatever.
And that's what he did.
Yeah, it was pretty, when you got a piss, it could be miserable.
Well, there's a mental challenge of sitting still for long periods of time.
Like I've only tree-stand hunted once, I did it at Dudley's place in Iowa.
And the thing about Iowa is, first of all, it's in November that you're hunting and it's
so fucking cold.
It's so cold and you have to sit still.
You can't fucking move a muscle and you're out there for hours and hours and hours
just hoping a deer gets it within bow range.
And the only reason why they do is just they just happen to be wandering and it's total
luck.
It's complete luck.
I mean, that's why those guys, like a lot of those, like, real psycho, Leela Koski guys,
they're out there for months at a time.
They'll hunt a single buck for like 38 days or however long the season is.
And they're in that damn blind every day or they're in that tree-stand every day.
They're freezing their dick off, just huddling up with mittens and shit.
And then sometimes when if you have a powerful bowl like you pull back, like when it's zero
degrees outside and you go to pull that thing back, you're like, "Tough."
You might not get it back.
No.
No.
Oh, no.
And that's a helpless feeling.
Oh, no.
Now, so back in the day, back when I used to, you know, I still tree-stand hunt, you know,
black tell sometimes, but phones have changed like how long you can stay because you could
just fuck around on your phone now.
Oh, that's true.
And then also there's heated vests, heated socks.
Yeah.
So you can have like, it's still just standing in a tree or sitting in a tree for 14 hours.
Terrible.
Still terrible.
Terrible.
Even with all that stuff.
It's a little easier, but pretty terrible.
Well, thankfully, gear's a lot better, too, like layering systems and you could stay, like,
you could stay alive.
Let me put it that way.
Yeah.
You're not going to be comfortable, but you could stay alive out there at the zero degrees
sitting still.
Oh, yeah.
No.
No.
Dude, I didn't, so I, you know, signed on the Sitka now, but I hadn't, I had other things.
I was, you know, underarm or different, whatever.
And I guess I had never had good gear my entire life because I didn't fucking know I didn't
have to be miserable in a tree stand.
And so Sitka sent me, I don't know what it is.
It's like some sideways zip jacket or, yeah, it's a jacket.
It's, I can't remember what it's called, but it's polar fleece.
And I was like up there going, this is not fucking feel good.
I'm not freezing.
And I had never, so like I said, I bowed into my whole life.
I guess I always just had like shit that wasn't the best.
And just thought, I was part of the deal.
Not just that.
It doesn't restrict any of your movements.
No, I used to have to wear like fucking seven hoodies, right?
Trying to pull a bow with seven hoodies on, but that's how I had to stay warm.
So with the Sitka stuff with John Barclays and he's kind of into design and he's a bow
hunter himself.
But I could have this shit on and it's not restricted.
I can pull my bow and, you know, it's not, this isn't like a fucking ad for Sitka.
If there's other stuff out there that does that too, great.
I just don't know about it because I'd never had it.
Man, that shit works good.
This a bunch of high level gear that's out there, but it's like whatever they've done
with Sitka, they've made it so that everything works perfectly.
They've dialed it in perfectly.
The pants, they've built in knee pads, which is fucking huge.
I love those pants.
So when you're crawling on, they're like, they're the perfect knee pads.
They're super lightweight, but you could sneak around on stuff on your knees and not
be in fucking agony.
And it doesn't restrict your movement at all.
The level of detail they have now on these clothes is it's more fitted, you know, I remember
like it's stuff that we used to use.
We used to complain about it together, but it's like who are they making these pants for
when the legs are that wide at the bottom still?
So you're walking along hunting and it's just like bell bottoms and they get wet.
They're fucking flopping around and shit.
It makes me so pissed.
I would take pictures and send a kid when he's an under armor or like the pocket or something.
I'm like, what the fuck is going on?
But yeah, this stuff fits good.
Yeah.
Well, it's just, I mean, that's one of the reasons to give them props so that they stay
open, stay alive because it's like that kind of gear is so fucking important.
Yeah.
You know, to have gear that doesn't restrict your movement, totally keeps you comfortable
and warm, makes you like so you can move around very quietly, whatever fabrics they're
using, they got to dialed in when you're walking, if your fabric rubs together, you don't
hear a fucking thing.
Yeah.
And again, time's precious.
And we're doing stuff in this time.
We want to enjoy it.
So we're in gear that makes us enjoy it.
Great.
But it's just the market for this.
This is like one of the things that really is, I think, important.
Like, the market for these things that are so impactful and important to us is not
a whole, does it just touch the microphone that I fucked up?
It sounded weird on my hand.
It's not a big market.
There's not a lot of us out there, you know?
So it's like, God, I'm so thankful that someone puts so much research and development into
these products, whether it's white bows or whatever you're using, that you like, you
got to think like, how many people had to work tirelessly to figure out how to make this
thing that is so critical to your success?
You know, fill in the blank, binos, whatever it is, whatever you're using.
Who fucking figured out how to make binoculars?
How about the sig ones that have image stabilizing now?
Yeah.
Who figured that out?
Who's, what wizard, what wizard scientist?
I got a pair of those 16 power sigs, the Zulu's.
You hit that switch and turn on the image stabilization.
And normally, if you're holding, for people who don't know, if you're holding 16 power
binos in your hand, your image that you're getting on the other end is all wiggly, because
it's 16 times larger than what you actually see.
So every micro movement is a giant jiggle in your eyesight, in your eye picture.
But with those things, it's like you're watching a movie.
It's like fully locked in, like it's on a tripod.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
I was looking for a friend and I was like, oh, look, the glass isn't as good in them.
And I'm saying that to him, you know, and then because I'm looking for my, my crystal
clear.
And maybe the glass isn't as good in them, but because the image is dead still.
So I'm doing this.
I'm putting mine up and I'm like, it's really clear.
And then I put that up.
And I'm like, they're not as clear.
No, you have to turn the button on and I press the button on and it's like, oh, fuck.
They're better.
Yeah.
Because the image is still, so you have really getting to look at it's, it's, it's going
to be the, it's the future.
So we're off skis now doing it with spotting scopes.
So they have a handheld spotting scope that completely stabilizes the image and it's
like, no, try it.
No, try it.
I mean, you hold like a 65 power spotting scope and you, you can look around like this,
which is crazy.
Well, crazy.
Well, crazy.
And the reason why that's so critical to a hunter is we look for movement.
Just like an animal looks for us moving too quickly, but we look for movement like an earflake
or a, or a tail wag or something like, or though sometimes they're high just if they
got a fly lands on them.
So you're looking for like a small little bit of movement.
You can't do that if you're, but not if you've got movement in your optics.
But with that stabilization, it's dead solid.
So you can see when that ear flicks, where you, where it'd be flicking before you just
didn't notice it.
So that's where it's like so critical.
But if you think about all this stuff, this top of the line stuff that we talked about
with the bows, the camo, the binos, bohunting, fucking still is so hard.
Still so hard.
Yeah.
So that's what's so beautiful about it is it's so challenging.
I don't care about it.
All this stuff is great.
No matter what you do, you're going to stink.
Yeah.
And if the wind catches the back of your neck and you see that animal's head pop up,
it's a wrap.
They're designed to get the fuck away from any funky smells of things that eat meat.
Yeah.
Not interested.
I'm out of here.
Well, that's bright.
We must stink.
Yeah.
We must fucking smell like hot death to them.
Oh, yeah.
Because when you see an elk or a deer catches a whiff you in their heads like, oh, no.
Oh.
What is this fucking?
Oh.
Yeah.
They don't even have to think that long about it.
And you know, they keep making these rules to try to make bohunting harder, like eliminating
certain things like that Garmin site.
I used to love using that Garmin range finding site.
And then they made it outlawed in Utah, like, oh, guys, come on.
This doesn't make it any easier.
Yeah.
It just makes it so that you're going to wound less things and have more effective shots.
But you know, when you get to that, like, it used to be there was no range finders, right?
Right.
When you started out, was there any range finders at all?
No.
Nothing.
There was no sites when I started out.
No peepsite, no fixite.
It's crazy.
Oh, it's crazy.
We shot fingers with compound.
That's crazy.
So you know, I'd have a little glove, glove, three tab glove thing and you shoot that.
What year did they invent the archery release?
Well, I got one in '89 finally.
When did they first come out?
Like, who is the first guy that invent, who's the first guy that goes, you know what?
This is bullshit.
The first one.
The first one.
I like how Cam's like I got one in '89.
I was nine years old.
Well, at least you were born.
I didn't know the word elk.
But you knew the word cunt, because they saved all the time down there.
And you were a baby.
What a cute, high little cunt.
Who is the guy that figured out the archery release?
Well, Jim Fletcher was, the Fletcher release was the first one I had and I had a little
rope in it.
I remember you'd have to put the rope around and it hook on the trigger, on the clasp and
then you'd hit the trigger and release it.
And I didn't get, I had to replace that rope because it started to wear off.
So you'd have to have the right knot and then you kind of burn it to get it to hold
in there.
So good enough.
So I didn't do that knot ride.
I go to pull the bow back.
The release comes off, hit myself in the face.
And so when I first started buying releases, they would come with a little string, did
they?
Yeah.
The first summon releases would come with a little rope.
And I was like, what the fuck is this for?
And it must be for guys who had kind of always done it that way and didn't want to not
do it that way anymore because that was like a part of their thing.
Maybe.
Did you find a Fletcher release?
1971.
1971.
Yeah, okay.
1971.
Look at that.
Stanislavski.
Yeah.
Still, they make awesome releases today.
Look at that.
That is awesome.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Oh, so that was just like a thing that went around your fingers.
Yeah, and it just turns to let it go.
Like a hinge.
Yeah.
Wow.
May revolutionize.
Look at that image.
May revolutionize archery.
Look at that.
Yeah.
May revolutionize archery by contributing to unprecedented accuracy.
I mean, that's essentially like a hinge.
Yeah.
It is.
Was there fought back on the time?
66.
Wow.
Wow.
I touched the bubble before.
64.
Wow.
I got some.
I got an idea for you guys.
Wow.
Using the six gold bow string release to improve their speed and accuracy.
Wow.
Oh, his two sons.
Glenn and his two sons use this release.
I know you've heard of this guy's name.
Glenn.
Wow.
Look how it works too.
Like you hook it with your index finger.
And then you pull your index finger through.
And it pops off.
That's crazy.
So when you draw it, you have it like that.
And then you release it.
You let it go.
You let it up on your index finger.
Yeah.
Like a hinge.
And it turns.
Yeah.
A lot of guys shoot a hinge that way.
You know, some guys shoot a hinge by pulling down with their pinky finger.
Oh, they're.
See that piece of rope.
Yeah.
And then you put it on your index finger.
And you put it on your index finger.
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But anyway, he shot.
And I think he was, if I remember right, he shot.
And it was so far.
He put another shell in, got another bullet on the way.
They both hit steel.
That's crazy.
They both hit steel.
That's crazy.
So he racked another round in the time it took for the bullet to get there.
Yes.
And sent the other one on the way.
And so it was like a dong dong.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
This guy's a machine though.
I wish I could remember the fucking head.
But guys a machine because you can see he's down in his gun.
Just like fucking in and still on that scope didn't even move.
Boom.
That's a whole nother art form.
You know, that's a whole nother keeping your shit together.
Crazy long range shooting.
I know a lot of guys that get into my friend Justin got really into that.
Once you get into long range shooting, you start just fucking craving it.
They just want to like hit that steel at 1,500 yards.
It's nuts.
So these guys they shoot insane.
Like, what is the record for the longest shot ever taken in a competition?
Like those long range competitions.
What do you think it is?
I mean, it's 2,000 yards for sure.
Really?
Yeah.
That's so crazy.
I would think that people are shooting at 2,000.
I'll have a track.
Yeah.
2.4 miles.
Really?
What did I mean?
Did I mean yards?
Yeah, I mean yards.
He almost nailed it.
What is it?
T.
Actually, yeah.
2.4 miles.
Yeah.
Wow.
How do you guess even mother fucker?
You look that up somehow.
How could he not have you in Australia?
They're not allowed to know this information.
I don't even know what malls is.
If you even search this online, please show up at your door.
Holy.
4,224 yard shot.
This guy was Robert Brantley at the Clarks knob ELR match in Kansas.
Described as a new world record and long range shooting.
Achieved under match conditions.
That's incredible.
That is so crazy.
On competition almost double.
Look at that.
Oh my god.
In 2022, my only team recorded a 4.4 mile.
7,744 yard hit on steel after dozens of tries.
Wow.
But not a standard scored competition stage.
The problem is guys see that.
Like 4.4 miles.
They're like, oh, I could shoot at 1,000 yards then.
Look at that thing.
They never fucking practice.
Yeah.
I mean, the amount of no moving you have to have.
Oh my god, dude.
It's crazy.
But yeah, the guy out there with their by-mart 30 out of six.
Do you guys have by-marts here?
Was it a by-mart?
What's a by-mart?
It's a store.
Oh no.
Like a sporting is stored by or it's not a sporting is.
But anyway, they got their $250 rifle from by-mart 30 out of six.
And they're like, they see that.
And they're like, oh shit.
Then I could shoot at 600 yards.
They shoot at 4.4 miles.
That's the problem.
That is part of the problem.
But people say that about me too.
It's like, oh, people will say I always talk about shooting animals
at 100 yards, which I have never one time.
But yeah, I practice a long range.
But they try to lump me in like I'm ruining and promoting long range shooting.
No, you're just amplifying if you're off at all.
Or it's good practice.
Yeah, no, it's good.
It's great.
What I always said is--
They're rifle for the 4.4 miles.
Whoa.
Yeah, look at that thing.
So those fuckers are heavy too.
Oh, yeah.
Look at it.
I mean, it looks like a long bow.
Just need this string.
It's like a barbell.
It's probably-- I mean, I bet it's 30, 40 pounds.
I don't know.
Does it say the weight on those ends?
Look at the size of that gun.
Look at the barrel.
Yeah.
That's nuts.
Yeah.
First confirmed and verified world record.
Yeah, wow.
Wow.
This isn't the actual one.
This is 2018.
That shot was taken in 2022.
Oh, so is the world record before the world record?
Wow.
Yeah, I guess I touched the gun.
I know those guns are heavy.
That's the government tells you.
Yeah.
That's right.
You don't want to touch a gun.
You might get AIDS.
It's exactly what we say.
It's only if you stick it up your ass like this.
No, you got to stick it up your ass.
After somebody's stuck it up their ass.
All right.
Yeah.
You got to get a second.
It's like dirty needles.
I hate when that happens.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah.
That's another thing.
It's like, you know, like bow hunters look at rifle hunters.
Like, oh, that's kind of easy.
Traditional hunters look at compound hunters.
Yeah.
That's easy.
And then there's guys out there.
I use a fucking spear.
You know, AIDS that they're on to.
Yeah.
For sure.
As long as you're ethical, as long as you could do it, I mean, I'm sure there's probably some
guy out there that knows how to hit a target with an adult adult, you know, probably.
I mean, if I'm using a spear, I don't do anything past three yards.
That's like my name.
I speed up off a lot.
We try to figure out who's pretty cool.
Did you really?
Oh, God.
We probably added that out.
We were trying to figure out the other day, like when the actual bow and hour was invented.
And it's kind of difficult to track down, but it's the weird thing is it seems to have been
invented or at least seems to exist simultaneously at many spots all over the world at the same time,
which is really interesting.
Yeah.
It makes you think like I wonder, we really don't know how much people were traveling back
then.
We really don't.
No.
There's a lot of guessing.
And they keep pushing back maritime travel.
They keep pushing back like the age of what when the first maybe even primitive humans were using some sort of a raft to get across lakes and rivers and maybe even oceans.
But, you know, sharing that information like who is the wizard that looked at a stick and goes if I can just put one of these fucking things on the end of that stick.
Oh, cool.
That's a cool one.
Why do you have that?
I always have that.
It's always sitting right here.
Oh.
They had in your pocket.
I did.
Because I put it in my pocket sometimes.
I'm fiddling with it.
Yeah.
I play with that thing.
That's a real one.
That's from here.
Whoa.
That's a fucking good one.
Yeah.
I found one in New Mexico.
That's a good one, right?
Remy said that one was probably used for fish.
He said because it's so big.
Oh, okay.
That was his guess.
Huh.
But maybe it might have been used for bison.
Sort of.
Yes.
I mean, it's not.
I mean, it would cut.
I mean, it's sort of sharp.
Yeah.
I mean, sharp as you can get it.
Huh.
That's cool though.
It's not like modern broadheads.
Modern broadheads that you get shave your arm with, you know.
They cut your eyes when you look at them too hard.
Bro.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what you want.
Like is that too?
Is that too good?
Is that too easy?
It's too sharp.
You should go back to Flint.
Go back.
Maybe you should make your own arrowheads pussy.
No arm.
It was like aiding.
Yeah.
This guy is a guy that, uh, I, uh, who went to high school with.
But he's, he would say his dad would, um, like shoot his arrows down the road
to make him, uh, he would like want to make the top broadhead door.
So it would go in in a rip or bigger hole.
What?
So it's like so you thought?
Yeah.
No bulldo.
Anyway, people come up with some crazy shit.
Well, if they don't know, that's the one of the things that's cool about when I got into
bow hunting, especially learning it from you, I already knew so much just from talking
to you.
You, you had so much information.
I didn't have to like figure it out nearly as much.
Yeah.
I said to listen, you know, like so many people have already figured out metal broadheads.
So like we were having a conversation about lighted knocks this weekend.
And I'm like, damn it, I think I'm going to stop using lighted knocks.
Yeah.
All right.
No, I think you got a really good point.
Like that additional 10 greens at the end can't be good for accuracy.
It just can't be.
I think you've got to pick the situation though.
And it's a little bit, you know, like if I'm going to the arctic and there's no sunlight.
And I want to see where the arrow hits.
Okay, a lighted knock's going to override the little bit of inconsistency.
Because it's a dull environment.
It's hard to see.
It's almost like you dusk all day long.
Yeah.
And I think like hunting pigs in their beds, you know, you're under the trees.
It's dark.
It might come in the play a little bit more there.
But if it's not required, then yeah, why, why interrupt even a little bit of accuracy?
Because you get to a certain point in bow hunting where we're talking about the arrow shafts.
The better the match grade of arrow shafts you can use.
You don't notice that the start wave because you're just shooting.
You know, and you're not super consistent.
You're not super accurate. And then all those little things end up bringing a group from that to that.
And there's the difference.
And you'll notice that at this point in your archery.
Yeah, it makes sense.
It totally makes sense.
But it's just again, thank God somebody figured all this stuff out.
If you had to come along and do it all by yourself.
It was a hard learning curve.
It's like in Australia that we didn't have the sort of figures and probably knowledge that you guys did.
Because it's like it's part of your pastime, right?
I was talking to Evan about this.
It's like part of the American pastime at bow hunter.
Whereas in Australia, it's not, you know, and there's not all the information out there.
And it seemed like Australia was probably about 10 years behind the US on sites, release aids.
The knowledge behind it.
And yeah, I think the fact that you guys have, like we were talking about Fred Bair, you know,
like Pave in the Way for bow hunting in America.
And you know, Australia's had its idols as well.
And people that have paved the way, but a lot slower than here.
To have all the knowledge for you to have someone like Cam is absolutely brilliant.
Because you are, you've probably made those mistakes yourself or learn them yourself.
And then so you go straight to Joe and be like, this is a good setup.
This works, this doesn't.
And then in Australia, the first things all sold with target sites for bow hunting, you know.
And it's just like, and we didn't know any better.
So as well as waste and time, you wasted a lot of money, you wasted a lot of effort, you wasted a lot of heartache, you know, on finding your way in bow hunting.
And there's still guys right now that's too instinctual with a compound.
Yeah, it's, it's the internet has definitely helped like educate people.
You know, we used to have to learn it all on our own, which is like, I think to Adam's point where it's nice when you have a resource or a mentor.
A lot of the times we didn't have that.
We had magazines, we didn't have internet.
So we just have to figure it out.
But when we talk about like the lighted knots, lighted knots specifically, you mentioned the weight.
The weight is one part, but it's also the inconsistency of having those electronics back there on the back of the arrow.
And you just can't get as good as a knock or so that's the connection point from the arrow to the string.
It's just not going to be as good with electronics in there with it's trying to serve a different purpose of lighting up that knock.
Where to, in my opinion, that's going to help me maybe decide on when to go after the animal knowing where I hit it, but it's not going to make me any more lethal.
I want the most accurate arrow possible and where that goes, whether I see it or not, doesn't really matter.
I'm going to have to get on that blood trail and recover that animal regardless.
So just knowing where the arrow hit isn't making it any more deadly or not, you know.
It's just how that might impact how I react to that shot.
But I want the most accurate. That's why I shoot those, you know, the X tens, $50 an arrow because it's the straightest, most accurate arrows, what they've used in the Olympics since 1996.
So you can use other arrows. They're not as straight, not as good.
You can put lighted knocks on. You're giving up accuracy. You can do it if you want.
And you can say it's going to help in these other arenas. It's not going to help with accuracy.
So all I care about is that arrow going where I want it to go. That's how I look at things.
It's the most important. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. It makes sense.
And the amount of times where the lighted knock would help you is dwarfed in comparison to the amount of times where accuracy is critical.
Right. Right. Accuracy is always critical. Right. And it's only a small amount of times where that lighted knock is really going to come into play where it really helps you.
That's what I, I mean, it's cool. And it's nice. And it looks, I've never used one.
So I mean, maybe I have, I have you, I guess I have a few times, but I just was like, just thinking about it and like, no, I, it's not helping me.
I always think about it when I take the regular knocks off and put the light ones on like the regular knocks are solid.
Yeah. Yeah. And the lighted ones, there's a hole in the center of it where you've got electronics and a light bulb and a battery.
I know. Like there's a bunch of shit in there. Yeah. That that's got to have some sort of effect. Right. Yeah. Didn't Tom Miranda used to have something we had a weight on the back of his arrow.
Didn't he have something crazy, some weird setup or not? Not the breadcrumb like the tracker. I remember what he had. No, it wasn't that.
It was like a thing that he did to the back of his arrow. I was like, that seemed countertuitive. We had additional weight on the back.
I don't know what I'm talking about. I can't remember. I don't know, but Tom Miranda, that's old school.
Oh, you're looking at, I mean, he's still out there getting it down, but that's, I mean, that's history.
Oh my god. We're talking about the Alveday with the Tom Miranda.
Oh, he's got those TV shows on forever. Yeah.
Adventure bow hunting with Tom Miranda. Yeah. Yeah. No, I got one all over the world.
Oh, yeah. Getting around the world. Oh, that guy was all over the world. Yeah. All over the world.
He was one of the first guys that ever heard about using a sauna to help his hunting. Really?
Yeah. Yeah. He felt like, because he was living in Florida.
And the guy was like, why do you want a sauna in your house here in Florida?
And he's like, because it makes you have more endurance.
Yeah. It's better for hunting. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah.
And it's pretty cool. Like Tom Miranda. Yeah. Old school.
Okay. It's cool to introduce all that stuff in the hunting.
Like if you're that passionate, you know, like I need an edge.
I got the ice bar for home. I did the hypoxic wellness, which is, I think I was telling Joe about this,
where I decked the home gym out. So it's basically a gym out altitude now.
And that's what I was using before I got to Utah.
And it actually made me be able to go from the bottom of the mountain to the top,
without stopping the take a breath, which is incredible. So it's altitude training.
It's altitude training. Is it content? No, it's the whole room.
Oh, but this company called Leonics now, they make say it could be the size of this.
And it would have a red light therapy in here. It would have a sauna in here.
It would have the hypoxic conditioning in here.
So basically pumping nitrogen in the room to drop the oxygen levels.
And so you could have gym equipment in here. You could sit near and read a book.
But the way that I've got it set out, I'm doing a workout in it now.
And I've got a target in the corner. I literally shoot my bow in there at like 14,500 feet.
And then to step out of that, and like I live at sea level back in Australia,
to step out of that at sea level, like you feel absolutely incredible.
And then that's so what was Utah 8,000 sometimes seven something seven or 8,000 feet.
And I'd be trying at the highest.
Okay, and I'd be training at 14,500.
So I felt amazing when I went there.
Yeah, technology technology. That is that is use because I mean, that's what athletes do.
They go to train high out to training in the mountains.
And then they come down to lower elevation where there's more oxygen.
And then there's more oxygen available to push themselves harder.
So their body is used to that.
It created more red blood cells essentially.
I think it's like a natural, I think that's what EPO they say does.
So it's a natural way to do that.
And yeah, I mean, so it just doesn't stay very long.
Yeah, it only stays in your system.
Your system eventually acclimates to whatever the altitude is.
But before it does that, you have a nice advantage.
That's why I think it's like a couple of weeks.
I think that's why they probably put the Olympic training center in Colorado Springs.
They wanted these people to train it, it totally makes sense.
Yeah, it totally makes sense. Training altitude.
I found mentally I felt a lot better too.
And then so now I've done a bit of reading up on it.
And it's like the plasticity of their brain improves under those conditions as well.
And then--
Makes sense.
Adaptors or die.
Yeah.
I just feel so happy afterwards.
I was sleeping in there in the end because I was trying to fit in as much,
which can be detrimental as well.
Like you don't want to overdo it.
But I was sleeping in there in the end.
And I'd wake up in the morning and I was just like on a high for like four or five hours.
Why would they say not to overdo it?
Because when they go train it altitude, they're up there the whole time.
Just to get acclimated, I bet initially.
Yeah, and I'll do it initially.
Yeah, okay.
And I also think that a part of it would be like overdoing your muscles.
If you just kept doing arms every single day, you know.
That's what he does.
You can't help it, can you?
That bike that you sent me is fucking awesome.
I love the step of bike.
Because I love the, you know, the air-dined bikes.
I love those things.
It's like my favorite conditioning thing.
And I love the echo bike from Rogue.
But I think that one's even superior to the echo bike.
The bonnet bike.
How consistent the drag is on it.
But even more importantly, it's harder.
Yeah.
It's harder to pull back.
Like the echo bike is easier to pull back.
That one has more resistance.
Yeah.
And when I first started using that one, I was like, whoa, this one's tough.
Like whatever you're getting out of the echo bike or the air-dined bike,
that's that times, too.
Really?
Yeah.
What is it called again?
Step R.
It's STPR, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
That thing, fucking rules.
That thing, rules.
I'll get them the deck, yeah.
Because all their equipment's like that.
Well, that bike is the shit.
And it's also got different grips.
Different hand grips and different things.
Yeah, I'm changing that up.
I'm on the top.
Yeah, you can mix it up.
You can mix up where the resistance is coming from.
And I actually lift the seat right up.
So it's nearly like I'm in the standing position.
Like this.
Oh, nice.
With the seat up.
And the legs are right down and it burns me.
Yeah.
Absolutely burns me.
I love it.
Well, it's a great low-impact cardio, too.
I mean, really, conditions to shit out of your legs and your lungs.
And it's, you know, you're not taking any pounding when you're doing it.
Yeah.
I think it's hard.
I'm stoked you like it.
Oh, I love it.
Yeah, because when it was in there, I didn't know when it had gotten delivered.
And I was like, oh, what the fuck is this?
And then when it was in the gym, I started trying the moment I got on.
Oh.
And it's easy to crank up, too.
Like it's right there.
There's no reaching down.
The handle is right there.
Mm-hmm.
Woo.
It's good.
There's so many different things you could use now, but what were you saying about earlier?
It's like you have the opportunity now to be better than you've ever been before.
Yeah.
Because of all this, you know, hormone optimization, the waist to well stuff, peptides, nutrition,
understanding exercise science, and then equipment.
Because you could condition your body, and you could be in amazing shape at 58, which
is crazy.
The knowledge of knowing that's actually out there is, I'm grateful for.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Just the knowledge and knowing that we can be better every day.
We can be healthier, physically and mentally.
It's great.
And I see, I do see a lot of doctors who kind of shit on BPC or shit on stem cells.
And I'm like, whatever you're saying, cool, but I've never felt better.
Yeah.
There's a lot of doctors who hate the person.
You could say it doesn't work.
Yeah.
There's a lot of doctors.
I've talked to doctors that shit on it.
And I had this one conversation with a doctor that is, I like.
He's a nice guy.
And he's like, I think it's a lot of placebo.
And I go, there's peer reviewed studies on BPC157.
I'm like, you're saying this and you haven't done the research.
Like, this is not debatable.
Like BPC157, there's a very clear pathway.
They show why it works.
It naturally exists in the human body.
And you can enhance your body's ability to recover from soft tissue injuries.
It's important.
It's good.
It's good for you.
Like the idea that somehow I know this is horse shit.
Like, no, you're horse shit.
Yeah.
You're spitting out some nonsense.
And the problem is a lot of doctors in particular.
A lot of very educated people that are specialists in whatever they're in.
Like, you know, you got a doctor.
You went to school.
You got a, rather, you got a medical degree.
You went to school.
You did your residency.
You want to be the one who has all the information.
And when someone comes along, it says, actually, a better way to do it is through stem cells.
Like, stem cells.
Yeah.
Like, what do you mean, O stem cells?
How much do you know?
There's, Neil Reardon has written many papers on stem cells.
Like, there's a documented efficacy on neurological conditions.
Soft tissue injuries, joint rehabilitation.
It's not guessing.
Right.
And for a doctor to say, I wouldn't mess with stem cells.
It's unproven.
The FDA hasn't approved it.
It's because the FDA sucks.
Yeah.
It doesn't mean that it doesn't work.
Like, there's scientists that are studying this stuff.
And there's people that are using it.
You got shit tons of anecdotal evidence from world-class athletes.
It'll tell you the benefits of it.
Yeah.
There's a reason why the UFC has partnered up with CPI down in Mexico.
But they have to go to fucking Mexico to do this stuff.
You know, which is crazy.
We're right here in the viable.
Yeah, but waste of wells, Brigham in particular, is really working hard
to make all that stuff available in the United States.
Yeah.
And it's only good.
It's good for everybody.
It's not bad for medicine.
People are always going to need doctors.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
It's just more advancement.
And the problem is, it's going to, for sure,
it's going to interfere with people who want to sell you pain pills.
It's going to interfere with people that want to do unnecessary surgeries.
Yeah.
And unfortunately, that's a real thing.
It's where they make their money.
And people like to say that, well, it's not FDA-approved.
And I'm like, have you seen the shit that is FDA-approved?
Yeah.
It's like, that doesn't mean anything to me.
Yeah.
I might not want to take it if it is.
Something like 30% of all medications get approved by the FDA get pulled.
Yeah.
It's like, that doesn't mean shit to me, because--
What is the percentage?
Put that in there.
You look at all the fucking poisonous food they sell us.
Yeah.
Which is FDA-approved.
Yeah.
So that's your argument and not approved in other countries.
Yeah.
Like other countries have banned it.
Outlawed it.
And we're like, it's fine.
It makes your cheerios.
I would say in the difference in ingredients between countries.
Yeah.
And it's like crazy.
America has sell--
Cheerios is a bad example.
Fruit loops is the best example.
Like the fact that they were like, oh, we can't do that.
Well, you do it in Canada.
You sell the fucking-- the same stuff with different dye, with natural dyes.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not as bright, but it also doesn't kill you.
Yeah.
It's not poison.
Yeah.
It's just so gross.
I know.
They're just-- they're so bought and paid for.
And here's the real problem.
A lot of these motherfuckers, they go from being working at the FDA to cushy jobs in these major
corporations.
Right.
It's like they have this golden parachute, 100%.
Confirmative.
2.9% of FDA approved new drugs from 1980 to 2021.
What was drawn specifically for safety reasons out of 1,310 total approvals were 210.
1%, were discontinued for all various reasons, including marketing factors.
It's that low.
I thought it was higher than that.
Yeah.
But look at down below where it says antibiotics face higher rates at 41%.
Whoa.
Okay.
So all told, I wonder what the pharmaceutical drugs they get pulled are.
Yeah.
Kind of biotics.
41%.
It's nuts.
Yeah.
Well, in 23% of oncology, I mean--
Indications withdrawn.
Wow.
I mean, we're just like guessing on this shit.
Wow.
It's not guessing.
It's like one of the problems with some of these studies is they're getting information from
the pharmaceutical drug companies themselves.
Like, I had this lawyer on.
There was explaining to me how he litigated a case against pharmaceutical drug companies.
And that one of the issues that they found was that these guys would run 10 tests.
And they find no efficacy.
But so they would rig a test in a very biased way.
They showed the smallest amount of statistical significance.
And then they would say it's statistically significant.
And they would push that.
And their only motivation was profit.
They weren't saying this is going to cure cancer.
This is going to stop blindness.
No, it's like we can make money on this.
Yeah.
And there's even one of the cases with viox where there was emails exchanged with the
pharmaceutical drug companies talking about all the problems that it was going to cause.
But we think we will do well with this.
Yeah.
Which is crazy.
I remember what we looked that one up before.
It's like, it's, yeah.
I mean, it's nuts how this medicine stuff works.
But it's like, they're still like with COVID vaccine.
Still things coming out.
I saw last night on TV about in a small number of cases.
It can cause heart, some or whatever the fuck.
But we've seen a number of these announcements like all these.
Finally, this negative stuff about the vaccine.
Did it do any positive?
Probably not.
But all this fucking negative.
And that was just coming out years later.
Yeah.
And we were bombarded with propaganda that it was necessary to stay alive.
Yeah.
Like there was one, I think it was the Atlantic that had one headline that said, if you're unvaccinated,
it might be time to make your end of life will.
And then the same, same magazine years later, COVID vaccines may cause heart damage.
Same exact magazine.
Fuck you.
Yeah.
Because you guys always said that because you were being pressured by your advertisers
or you were being pressured by culture or society.
You didn't look at the history of pharmaceutical medication and how much they're full of shit.
They've paid some of the biggest criminal fines in the US history because they fucking lied.
And the same companies are still selling you shit.
Yeah.
You think they came to Jesus?
Do you think they're different now and they don't just try to make money?
Yeah.
And if you question that, you're a conspiracy theorist and a cook and you're taking horse medication.
Like, it's fucking, it's so infuriating how many people buy into stuff.
Right.
And how they don't even get in trouble for lying to everybody for so long.
For years, just lies and propaganda face no recourse, not, not, not financial, not social.
Nobody's responsible.
Not reputational, no recourse.
Yes, disgusting.
I'm still waiting for Fauci to be strung out.
He can't be.
He got a giant pardon by the auto pen.
Yeah.
Well, but what's so frustrating too is that they basically said, hey, you have to take this poison or you're going to lose your job.
Yeah.
Or you won't be able to do this or you won't be able to do that.
So take this poison.
But then something that we've shown works.
Stim cell, BPC.
That's what they'll shit on.
They're just worried about losing control and they're worried about losing profits and they're worried about compounding pharmacies making this stuff.
And they want peptides, they want all the stuff, but they want to be able to market it only under their brand.
They want to own it.
You know, they want to have patents for all this stuff.
And that's where the real problem comes.
A lot of these really effective things, they can't patent.
Right.
It's a, yeah, all tied to the money.
I have a code for peptides that weighs 12.
I wish I could remember it so we can use it.
It's probably Sam.
Is it C.A.M.?
It's probably Dave Fock.
You don't know what your code is?
No.
Really?
What's in this podcast?
Well, you might not, I don't want to bother.
We'll figure it out.
Figure it out, fuckers.
I'll put it on.
I'll put it on his Instagram.
On my Instagram story.
I'll put it on a actual post.
Okay.
That important.
Okay.
We'll put it on whatever.
Do whatever the fuck you want to do.
Okay.
Well, okay.
So here's what I wanted to end the podcast with.
What's one thing you learn the season about hunting?
Hmm.
Or wait, is this my call to how we end it?
Yeah, you can do it.
You can do it.
You're on the show.
What I learned the season.
Oh, I always learn one thing every year.
How important leg conditioning is.
Hmm.
So fucking important.
Yeah.
God.
It's what, maybe the most, especially the elk hunting,
it is the most important thing.
Leg conditioning is fucking everything.
If you can't get up those mountains and be fit,
and be able to do it over and over and over again,
over like five days of miles and miles and miles,
like no matter what I did, I need to do more.
That's what I learned that for sure.
That's a big one.
And you can never be in too good a shape.
Never be in too good a shape.
Never have your legs conditioned enough,
and you can over practice archery.
I learned that too.
Because I started developing this low back problem
that I've been going to this trigger point massage
that I went today.
Oh, my God.
It helps.
I get so scared every time I go into this guy's office,
fucking tortures me.
It's horrible.
It's especially when he does the IT band
with his fucking knuckles and his elbow, it's horrible.
But it's super effective.
I just, I got, essentially, I got a tendonitis
in my lower back.
Overuse injury.
Just overuse.
Because I'm pulling back an 80 pound bow a hundred times
over and over and over again, days after days after days after.
And every time it would hurt, I would be an idiot.
And I'd go, "Ah, I walk through it."
And you're obsessed with that.
Yeah, I'm a little obsessed with it.
It got bad.
But that's why you're great at things, too.
Yeah, it's a double-edged sword.
But you got to learn, like you were talking about,
not overdoing it in the hypoxic thing.
You got to learn.
And I don't learn always, but I try to.
I learn those things.
Yeah.
Those are huge.
So, okay, what are you going to do for your legs in?
Continue.
Not stopping with leg conditioning ever until September.
Okay.
Like, there was a lot of times,
one thing that's waste of wells helped me.
I got a fucking weird left knee.
But the latest round of stem cells that I had did real,
they did a real improvement.
Like, I really noticed it.
And I'm protecting it.
I'm not doing anything stupid in the meantime.
You know, like, no jiu-jitsu.
Like, no getting heel hooked.
Nothing.
You know, nothing that's going to aggravate it.
Right.
And just build up my conditioning and maintain it over the year.
That's a big one.
Yeah.
That's good.
Would you learn campaigns?
Me?
Yeah, it's Adam Stern.
You get lost.
I think I learned a lot this season,
but just like more about life than just, you know, bowing scenario.
But I think the biggest thing that I took away from it
is health as in mental and physical,
and that you can always, like, step it up.
And you can always be better.
And I think, like, I just, you know, like, family life,
whatever excuses I can come up with, you know, business,
and not having the time to put in the extra,
but finding the extra time because of how valuable it is.
And what the payoff in that is, you know,
being physically healthy makes it a lot easier to be mentally healthy.
Because you went for a while where you really didn't work out much.
I didn't.
I just, I bow hunted a lot, you know,
and I was on the tools a lot, like being in, you know, the building game.
But it's not, that's different.
It's a different sort of health, you know,
whereas in actually targeting, you know,
losing weight, eating clean, you know,
because it's not just about the gym,
it's like everything that else that goes with it.
So I learned to eat a lot more cleaner.
I started doing the hypoxic wellness studio,
and I think a combination of those things
and seeing the payoff in two weeks, you know,
not talking months, it was like, in two weeks,
I could see a massive difference
when you lined everything up, eating healthy.
That made the mountains a lot more easier
and a lot more enjoyable.
I'm not saying I did more of the mountains.
I think I only covered the same sort of miles,
but it was just a lot more enjoyable.
And that example that I kept saying to you,
like I'm from the bottom of the mountain to the top,
without having four or five breaks in between when you're like,
and hurting, it was just a lot more enjoyable.
I'd stop, you know, and it's just like,
I wasn't even taking deep breaths.
I was already scanning the mountains for a bull.
You know, I think it just become a lot more enjoyable
and then getting the headspace from that too,
whether it's from me feeling better,
whether it's from better plasticity of the mind.
Overall, I just felt a lot better,
a lot more connected, a lot more grateful as well,
as in because you feel good.
So it's easier to think of things more and be more grateful.
I like that. Well, what I took from that is,
you said climbing the mountain was more enjoyable.
To me, that means you're going to make better decisions.
Yes.
You're going to be when you're hunting, you know,
because when we're fatigued, there's this famous saying,
fatigue makes cowards of us all,
but it also, we make poor decisions when we're fatigued.
So you being at a higher level just physically allows you
to hunt better is what I always think.
Yeah.
Because we're not taking shortcuts for making better decisions.
We're reading the animal better.
We're instead of like looking for a,
because we're a gas, so we don't want to kick things.
We're looking at the ground more instead.
Our heads up and we're reading the situation better.
So it's just, it results in just better hunting.
And you enjoy it more.
Yeah, definitely.
I love that.
What I learned is that I think I,
I enjoy the success of others.
And this has been reinforced over the years.
But this year specifically, I enjoy being part of the success
of others and taking others like new hunters
and just sharing our lifestyle with them.
And just what's important to me,
and it gives me a chance to share,
when you talk to somebody on the phone,
you're not like getting deep.
But when you're on a hunt, you get that opportunity.
And they're more, I don't know if they have to listen
because they can't go anywhere.
Or it's just they're more interested in listening.
But it allows me to really like share why nature
in the mountains and what I do is important.
And it seems like it really resonates with people.
And it's just, that has given me so much strength
and I don't know, I just, in purpose,
it's just sharing our lifestyle with others.
That's what I've learned that drives me.
You've been like that for a long time too.
That first buffalo hunt that we went on back in Australia
and you killed a bull and it was like,
I was as happy for you as if I killed it.
And then when I killed my bull, it might've been the last day.
Like it was the same.
It was all like hugs and that was awesome.
And I could see it glowing in your face.
You want, you, you relish in other people's success as well.
Gentlemen, this was awesome.
Thank you.
Always great to hang out with you guys.
Thank you.
It's pleasure, buddy.
Love you too.
All right, bye everybody.