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Even if that first match isn't a good fit, you can easily switch to another therapist. This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off at betterhelp.com/jre. Yeah, I get it, but then again, if you're on another team, you're like, "Well, this is kind of bullsh...
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- I don't know what to tell you about your new drink.
- Look at this red gummy fish.
I'm about to try it for the first time.
And this is a new tropic?
- Yeah, so it's, I think on the first episode maybe
that I did with you, robust there.
- That's good.
- Yeah.
- Oh, that's delicious.
- I mean, robust.
You're saying that you're potentially--
- Oh, both.
- Flavor and--
- I think it's great.
- Oh, right on.
- Red gummy fish, it's fucking delicious.
I drink the shit out of this.
- Oh, a lot of stuff in here, what's in here?
- So I think it was the first time I was on you asked me
about the reala mind and the new tropic formula
that I used before podcasts.
- Yeah.
- To get cognitively dialed.
And at the time it was a capsule based formula.
And it still is, it still exists.
But taking what we could to suspend in a liquid format
and getting it into something that's more like publicly
and widely accepted and that they would want
to drink on a regular basis.
And it's something you could use daily.
That's kind of what we did in this.
So we included essentially like a daily use version
of the gorilla mind formula, which includes the tyrosine
precursor for dopamine as well as other neurotransmitters
catacole amines like adrenaline, or adrenaline.
Also, alpha GPC, most bioavailable form of colina
crosses the blood brain barrier and is pretty efficacious
and also just a good colina source in general,
which most people are deficient in as a nutrients.
And I think completely unaware that it's actually important
to be supplementing with potentially.
Pretty hard to get an adequate amount of colina.
But what does it come from in food?
- Liver is a good source, eggs and in general,
it's just like the highly nutrition dense foods
that you would get it from.
A lot of people aren't focusing on specifically,
either because of caloric density or it's like an animal base
like nose to tail thing or fill in the blank.
It's not impossible to do it.
A lot of people who focus on it could probably
relatively easily, but it's still one of the things
you have to focus on actually kind of like
maneuvering into your diet typically.
So in general, most people are at least maybe like 50%
of the way that are at best.
And that's even among people who I would say are
relatively balanced diet individuals, but interesting.
So I'm sure you're familiar with colonurgics
and they're try act on cognition and whatnot.
Caffeine, tried and true.
- How much you got in here?
- 200 milligrams.
- Very difficult decision trying to come up with.
What is the amount you're gonna stick with
in perpetuity in this thing?
- Everyone's addicted now.
It's a real issue with caffeine.
- So it's like the fine line balance of not too much,
something that is still tolerable, sustainable,
gonna be widely accepted and widely impactful
on a beneficial level, but not overdoing it
and 200 is kind of what we landed on.
And then you're redeeming on a phosphate,
pretty unique ingredient.
I haven't seen anybody ever included in a drink
let alone even in supplements typically.
- What is it?
- So it's also something that operates
via the colonurgic system, but in a different way,
mainly it's utility is kind of enhancing your sensitivity
to stimulants.
So somebody who is otherwise desensitized
from like heightened exposure to things
that either desensitized them to caffeine
or nicotine or things of this nature,
even some like the ADHD medications.
This can actually at least the literature
suggest strongly that it enhances dopamine
neurotransmission potential.
So like almost restoring function
and damaged dopamine producing neurons in the brain.
So you can kind of get a heightened impact
out of the same level of stimulant.
So a caffeine dose that might otherwise be
you're used to it now.
You start to feel it again more than you used to
without having to increase your caffeine intake.
- Oh.
- Yeah.
So it's a pretty cool ingredient.
And it seems to have some neuro protective properties
potentially as well.
And some interesting literature on like Alzheimer's
and whatnot, but it's more like fringe
and to be determined how impactful it is.
And then on top of that, we have Althinian,
probably familiar effects stacked with caffeine
increases alpha waves, get for verbal fluency
as well as just general attention, concentration,
but keeping you a little bit more balanced and mellow
while you have the heightened stimulatory activity
from the caffeine and the other kind of like dopaminergic
compounds.
And then also saffron extract,
which is a totally unique inclusion in my opinion.
Still don't really see it in utropic formulas
a little bit in drinks and it's something
that's in literature as shown to be as efficacious
as pharmaceutical SSRIs without inducing
the same erectile dysfunction-inducing effects of it
and without causing the same anhydonia-inducing effects,
which is kind of like the muting of like pleasure
in the brain.
So saffron.
- Yeah, super interesting ingredients.
It seems to be pretty impactful for depression,
for anti-anxiety, and it also operates through
a seemingly different mechanism, even though it's often
stacked up against SSRIs for its comparisons
and outperforms them or matches it
with a relative lack of side effects.
It is something that operates through seemingly
antioxidant activity, some dopaminergic,
some serotonergic, and it's just a little bit more
of a benign way to achieve what is a similar outcome,
but with a seemingly lower, if not negligible,
to non-existent side effect profile.
I'm not saying that's what our drink does.
I'm just saying that's what the literature on saffron
doesn't anyone can go look that up and reference it.
And then who pairs the name?
Probably the most impactful acetylcholine
mistress inhibitor that you can include alongside
like choline precursors.
So it inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine,
as opposed to being the fuel like the precursor
like choline acetylcholine, alpha-GPC, CDP choline.
These are things that provide the substrate
to actually produce the acetylcholine,
preventing the breakdown of it too,
could otherwise get like a one-two punch
where you get the heightened fuel substrate,
but then also an inhibition of its breakdown.
So yeah, just like a heightened level of cognitive capacity
through both like the one-two punch.
How did you determine these like doses
and what you were going to include and not include?
So a lot of it derived from the original capsule-based
formula, so back in, I don't know, 2021,
and I had already been using this thing
for daily use essentially.
And it was something that was determined based upon
years of experience, personal anecdotes,
but digging through hordes of clinical literature,
ultimately, there's a lot of these compounds
that have clinical studies on them for different applications.
You can kind of sift through what are the efficacious dosages,
where are they impactful?
Or as a sustainable level,
you could actually take this long term
without it being negatively impactful
because sometimes if you overdo it in one area,
over time, it might be problematic.
So trying to find the fine balance of where
is a dose that moves the needle,
but isn't going to kind of like push you
in too far of a negative direction that it's unsustainable.
Because sometimes that this stuff,
it's like a hammer solution.
You might see an energy drink that's like 300, 350 caffeine.
And it's like, okay, you know,
you've essentially like singled out a lot of the customers
who might otherwise benefit from it.
Even if there was other good stuff in the drink,
it's like only steam junkies can use it now, you know?
So this is kind of like the fine balance
of what I thought to be the most sustainable version
of balancing dopamine input, serotonergic activity,
getting some of that anti-anxiety support,
and also getting a reasonable headed caffeine.
- And did you, so in pill form,
so did you start out by using each individual supplement
and then trying to use them in combination
to see if there's a synergistic effect?
Like how did you do it over time?
- I guess maybe that's a bit more interesting
than digging through literature,
but when I was a university student,
just like being a nerd,
mixing stuff in my kitchen like a chemist essentially,
and just measuring raw powders back, you know?
In the day, what we would do,
or at least, you know, like biohackers and what have you,
we'd buy just like off of different websites,
raw bulk ingredients,
and then you'd measure it with little micro spoons
in these laboratory increments to try and get,
okay, the microgram equivalent of this,
and you'd make some disgusting shake with a concoction
of different unflavered powders
and create what is your ultimate kind of combination
through trial and error, ultimately.
- And were you like doing a diary?
Like today, I feel great.
- Yeah, it was just keeping a log almost like, you know,
working out like how did you respond
to the blank, or just taking into account
like sleep, all these different factors, diet, training,
- As training variables at the time,
obviously a bit more rudimentary and crude
when you're like 21 years old, and you're just kind of like,
get cognitively locked in to study for finals,
but back then it was just,
what is the most impactful things that I've heard work,
and then also digging further into literature,
looking on the limited forums that existed back then online,
'cause it's a lot more of like a niche community back then,
it's not like this was, it was widely discussed,
up 20 2009, 2008.
- Oh, er.
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Early days.
Yeah, that's when I first started fucking around with them.
Oh, yeah.
I first found out about Nero One.
That was the first one I found out about.
OK.
Did you ever try that one? Nero One.
It's Bill Romanowski's company, the football player.
So he developed it because he was having cognitive problems
after years and years of playing football.
And so he came up with this formulation.
And I was doing this radio show, Alice in No Name
in San Francisco.
And No Name's a dude, I forget his name, unfortunately.
I ride him, yeah, yeah, so long ago.
But he was working out with Romanowski.
Romanowski was trying to get him in shape.
And he gave him this stuff.
He said, hey, try it.
And it was, you know, I do morning radio.
When you're promoting, like I was doing Cobb's Comic Club.
When you're doing a Comic Club, you'd show--
this is back in the day when radio meant something.
You'd show up in the morning and you'd do the morning drive.
And they would go, oh, Joe Rogan's appearing
at the Comedy Club this weekend.
Come see him and you'd be funny on the radio
and have a good time with the people.
And he gave it to me and I was like, hey, man.
This stuff feels like something's going on.
Like this is legit.
And that's what really got me in--
that's how we developed Alpha Brain.
We developed Alpha Brain after me trying out Neuro1 saying,
can we optimize this?
Is there another way to do this?
Is there other forms that we're missing?
But your formulation seems like very comprehensive.
And also, fucking delicious.
Yeah, it's one of the difficult things, too,
is making it taste good while still being able to suspend
the active ingredients.
Because they could just fall out of suspension
or marry out of different issues.
Coordination problems, even exploding cans and transit
that you're not predicting are going to react
to a certain way.
Even the black lid, dude, it's stuff you don't even think of.
But it's absorbing heat.
It's like, oh, it's going to be more prone
to blowing up now, because of that.
Oh, because of a black lid.
Did you want a black lid just for aesthetics?
Yeah, at the time.
It was like, this looks cool.
Yeah, exactly.
And so what are you sweetening this stuff with?
Primarily superlose, which obviously,
some people have their opinions on it.
And that's totally fine and good.
But in general, based on clinical literature
seems to be well tolerated.
And what is the issue with it that people have?
I think some people think it depends on the person
and like the kind of content they make typically.
Typically, they have a bit of a bias.
Yeah, but in general, it's going to irritate your gut
or it could cause GI distress.
And for some people with extremely sensitive gastrointestinal
issues, it can, for sure.
But in general, the dosages used and just having it
even conservatively, which most people
are going to be, it's like pretty benign, at least
from the literature I've seen.
One of the things that we had noticed
when we first came out with alpha brain
was for some people.
It's a small amount.
But for some people, they would get headaches
and they felt terrible after taking it.
I don't know what they're dosing.
I don't know if they were taking the recommended dose
or if they were saying, well, too good, I'll take five.
And there's a lot of folks like that out there.
But--
Yes, some of these, if you're not careful,
it could be pushing you into--
we've vetted this out beforehand.
But one of the first formulations
were prototypes of guerrilla mind in the capsule form.
We had something called Velvet Bean Extract, which
standardizes to L-dopa.
So like levodopa is used for Parkinson's patients,
because it's a direct precursor to dopamine
without a rate limiting step that kind of, like,
ingit regulates the conversion.
So rather than using tyrosine, we were like,
we thought--
and we didn't end up releasing it because of this--
we could just go, OK, let's get a straight precursor
and see how impactful this thing is,
because we really wanted to hit.
And oh my god, I had dopamine overdose myself,
had my girlfriend at the time, also fuck herself up,
and my parents fucked themselves up.
And somehow it didn't occur until like three incidents later,
I'm like, OK, this thing is unsustainable.
And I guess my business partners didn't really even
think worth mentioning, which was kind of crazy at the time,
because they just trusted me to do the formulations and whatnot.
But they had the same experience and didn't bring it up.
And I'm like, god, it's like, we can't really do this shit.
It was just like way too intense.
What did I do to you?
Just like makes you extremely nauseous.
You feel like you have to keel over on a couch
and just lie there until you feel like you can actually
regain composure and start moving around again.
Really?
Yeah, dopamine-- a lot of people think
more is better, and you're going to have more motivation,
more drive, more-- the more of the better
is what a lot of people think.
But similar to probably even worse than stimulants,
because at least stimulants, you have a direct biofeedback
through your heart rate going through the roof,
and you're getting the anxiety with dopamine
if you overdo it with something that you can't rate limit.
Either you just get sick, and you just end up
having to lie down for hours.
Interesting.
One thing I like about a drink versus a pill form
is that you can just take a little--
Yeah, you can meter your drinks.
Yeah, because you take a pill, you're taking a pill.
It's like, unless you want to cut pills in half
or pour some of the capsule out, no one's doing that.
But this is nice, because you can just kind of
sip a little bit of it.
How many of these can you drink in a day?
I could drink a lot, personally.
Like, you don't even want to know, dude.
How many do you drink a day?
On a typical day, probably two to three,
but I-- What's recommended?
Check the warning label, bro.
What does the warning label say, bro?
It must say no more than two a day,
but I would say on a podcast, not more than one,
is what I would recommend.
Yeah.
Well, especially with all that caffeine, as well.
Yeah, you never know.
In general, 400 milligrams is even like the FDA stated.
Everyone's going to be OK, probably dose.
But in reality, it's kind of crazy.
A lot of people don't realize the studies done for caffeine
induced performance enhancement are all looking at like three
to six milligrams a kilogram, which is like,
unless you're a tiny woman, 400, 500, 600 milligrams,
are the doses that actually really move the needle
when it comes to acute performance enhancement.
Chale Sun needs to take it in pill form.
Yeah.
Because he was saying that there's a level where
a little test you, well, you'll pop where they'll say,
OK, you're in a stimulant level.
Like you took a stimulant before you fought.
Yeah, they had threshold concentrations
that they would deem inappropriately high,
perhaps for safety, perhaps because I
thought it was an unfair advantage.
Just kind of--
I think that's what they were looking at.
It kind of depends, though, because I think it was removed.
And I don't think that threshold exists anymore,
except in the NTA.
I'd have to revisit it.
But I'm pretty sure caffeine is like, essentially,
you could go full borough at this point.
Interesting.
So 500, 600 milligrams was what the efficacious dose was?
So you can get performance enhancement as low as,
I think, some people was like a milligram per kilogram.
It depends on the person and tolerance, of course.
But in general, the most tried and true studies
are when it comes to repeatable high impact
with a proportional relative lack of side effects,
but not none was like, 3 to 6 milligrams a kilogram.
And some of the studies go even higher than that.
Interesting.
And what are the benefits?
What did they get?
Like acute strength enhancement, offsetting
like any sleep-induced deprivation performance
outcomes mentally.
You can pretty much offset a shitty night of sleep
and all the kind of detriment to your performance
via a pretty solid dose of caffeine.
Yeah, most of the stuff is kind of energy
acutely offsetting performance decrement related,
but also in a context of strength, high intensity activity,
you can absolutely get a benefit from it.
And there's a reason why sprinters will take
medicinal or high dose caffeine
or power lifters will take massive doses
of pretty workout before a lift or whatnot.
It's all impactful for your psychological state
to get really locked in in a hyper-vigilant state
to really max out on what you're trying to do,
whatever it may be.
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- I had a podcast of the day with Chris Masterjohn.
Do you know who he is?
- Yeah, he's great.
- Great.
And we were talking about the impact of creatine.
And they're trying to figure out what is the correct dose.
And a lot of people are going 20, 30.
They're getting pretty high.
'Cause the recommended was like five milligrams, I think.
And now everyone's saying actually,
the real benefits are at 20 and at least 10.
But you're getting a lot of what happens
when people have sleep deprivation.
And I'll butcher the science.
So I won't try to repeat it.
I don't recommend anybody listening to the episode.
But what he was essentially saying
was it bypasses all of the problems that occur.
And you could at least have a bridge
to your performance would not be impeded by a lack of sleep.
At least for a temporary, for a day or whatever.
- Yeah, definitely want to touch on that.
But one thing to mention on the caffeine too is,
I think a lot of people when they hear the stuff like,
I heard you can go up to 20 grams of creatine
or the highest impact dose in caffeine literature
is three to six milligrams of kilogram.
It's not like I or I imagine Chris
is like blindly recommending anybody start there.
And it could easily get misconstrued that way.
And like a clipable format of people
was just like hear the headline and then run with it.
And you should start as low as you can with caffeine
and you could get a organic effect as low as,
I think the lowest dose was like 50 to 100 milligrams,
probably if you equated to body weight.
But it's all like tolerance dependent.
It's just when you look at the studies,
like these are the repeatable high impact outcomes
or typically in, and especially in like trained athletes
who you're trying to see how hard you can push them.
It's kind of like, you know, for max stress resilience,
max, you know, acute force production,
these are the kind of dosages
that are just used in the studies.
So anyway, with that caveat and same with the creatine,
you know, you might shit yourself
if you go to 20 right away.
- Right.
- You don't want to start there.
- A lot of people do apparently.
- Yeah, and I mean like, like Rhonda Patrick,
amazing content, and she tolerates 20 grams well,
which is kind of like surprising,
'cause I know a lot of women who don't.
I think she does a probably microdoses it throughout the day
and is really regimented about making sure
she's diligently spreading it out,
but some people who they bomb 20 at a time,
even guys who think they have iron stomachs.
- Just shit a little bit.
- It's like so much powder too.
It's just the fact that you're consuming all this powder.
- Yeah.
Oh yeah, speaking of which,
are you still doing the like million gummies today?
- Of what?
- Of creatine.
- No.
- You said you were gonna crank that shit up?
- Yeah.
- That's 20 grams.
- I stopped with the gummies and I went to powder form.
- Oh, okay.
- 'Cause I felt like I'm tired of eating these fucking things.
- You got up to like, what, like 10 plus a day.
- Or more.
I was eating like 15 a day, 15 gummies a day.
- But the issue is like, what else is in the gummies?
You know, what are the other things?
- Yeah, they're not gelatin and powder is other.
It's kind of just like.
- If I'm gonna eat candy, you know,
kind of want it to be like good candy.
- Yeah, I don't even know what it's sweetened with.
They taste good, but the point was it's like,
I didn't like eating them.
I was eating, I was like forcing myself to chew these things down.
I'm like, what am I doing?
I could just mix creatine and a glass of water,
stir it up real quick and just chug it in five seconds
and we're done.
I don't have to chew and swallow all these stupid fucking gummies.
- I know.
- But I do keep 'em.
I keep 'em around 'cause I think it's a great thing
like if I hadn't had enough lately, I'll just pop a few.
- It's like the best gateway drug, if you can even call it,
it's not like a drug, but to get people
who otherwise would never try it
to actually see the benefits of it.
- Right.
- So like, I know so many women who literally refuse
to take the powder 'cause it's like,
even though it's kind of tasteless,
it's still a nuisance, can be a little bit messy
depending on the scoop or shape of it and everything
how you're gonna try to convince a chick like,
it trusts me, it's really good for your health
if you like, you know, fucking swig this thing dry
and then chase it with water every day.
- It's not the easiest sell every time.
- They're like, "Fuck you, I don't care."
- So the gummies are good for that in my opinion.
- Yeah.
- And yeah, I mean, going back to the 20 grams
and the offsetting of performance deteriorations,
I do think it's basically offsetting kind of the deficiencies
in ATP production, especially locally in the brain
and also kind of offsetting the pulling of resources
away from like methylation support and whatnot
in order to produce the endogenous creatine as well.
These things can all be impactful to kind of like,
get you back to almost baseline.
So if you're in a deteriorated state,
being able to offset the performance decrements
from and otherwise, you know, sleep deprived state
or, you know, you're traveling or what have you,
like it can absolutely be super impactful
and the literature is shown that time and time again.
- What's interesting is that creatine in the 1990s
was thought of like steroids.
- Yeah.
- I mean, it was really like frowned upon like,
"Oh my God, someone's taking creatine, they're cheating."
It was really, that's like how it was first introduced
to the market.
- You have to hide it from your parents
when you're in teenager.
- Really?
- Yeah.
- Well, at least when I was a teenager,
it was kind of like, it had a taboo still.
It was like, you know, kind of like steroids light version.
- Well, it's 'cause it works.
- Yeah, and parents,
but they hear the stigma in the taboo.
So see, like I heard creatine and they're selling it
at the GNC's, you know, better watch out for that one.
- Meanwhile, they had real steroids at GNC.
- Oh, yeah, the irony too.
- Yeah, I mean, they like fucking M1Ts
over the counter from, you know, like some 19 year old kid
who's just like, manning the counter,
and doesn't care and like fuck your endocrine system up
to sell it to you.
- 100%.
I took some stuff called mag 10.
Do you remember that?
- Emma, if I saw the ingredient deck,
I'm sure it's just like some fucking run in the mill
at one tea product or something.
- Gained like 10 solid pounds of muscle in a month.
- And I bet your liver markers,
not that you did blood work back then.
- Which is destroyed.
- Yeah, like worse than if you took like injectable trend
even. - Right, right.
- Yeah, it's crazy.
- Yeah, well, 100% to kill my deck afterwards too,
when I got off of it, I was like, what's going on?
And I was like, oh, this is a real steroid.
- Yeah, and it's like, you're not giving the PCT
from the guy at the counter.
- I mean, I felt like a fucking gorilla when I was taking it.
I felt so strong when I was taking it, I literally gained,
I think it was like I was on it for five or six weeks
and I gained 10 solid pounds of muscle.
- The amount of people that have inadvertently gotten
kind of comastia from those days when they were sold
some irresponsible proven over the counter
without like any knowledge of what they were taking,
and then had to just recover naturally with no support.
- It's a shame.
- Yeah, well, there was so much of that stuff.
Like, werewolf blast.
- Oh, there it is, yeah, it's a dragon dick.
You could buy them, and they were just pills.
They were just regular pills.
- The stimulants are crazy too.
Like, a fedron was over the counter,
and like, so weird in Canada for relatively recently,
even, it was still available over the counter,
even though Canada is like super tight on regulation
when it comes to the most weird stuff.
Like, when it comes to caffeine,
you can't even have a can with 200 milligrams.
It has to be like 180 or lower.
Why exactly?
I don't know.
But that is a thing as well as limitations
on basic amino acids.
It's like tyrosine if it's more than like 10 milligrams
or something.
- Amino acids.
- Yeah.
- That's hilarious.
- Yeah, it's crazy.
- Like, based on what?
- Nonsense.
- Yeah.
- Oh gosh, fucking nanny's date.
- But anyway, so a fedron, for whatever reason,
was still over the counter available in GNC's
up until like a handful of years ago,
and it was, you know, the best cellar in GNC's
and a lot of supplement stores,
not just because it worked as, you know,
like a bronco dilator,
but also because people were buying it in bulk to make meth.
(laughing)
- I believe it.
I took Rip Fuel once for Jiu Jitsu, right before Jiu Jitsu,
and I had a stop in the middle of the class.
I was like, I gotta sit down.
I pulled over to the side of my guys.
My fucking heart is beating on my chest.
And I was explaining, I don't remember how many I took,
but I took some Rip Fuel.
I was like, well, it's good to lift with.
I'll try it for Jiu Jitsu.
It's fucking, for something that like really taxes
your cardiovascular system, it was horrendous.
- Resting heart rate of like 120.
- Right away, I was tired.
Like right away.
Like right away, like we start rolling.
I was like, God, I'm fucking exhausted.
My heart's beating out of my chest.
- But in your brand, you're like,
"This feels good."
- I thought it was hot.
- I knew I fucked up.
- I knew it, I did it once, and I never did it again.
- If you're doing that sport,
but for a guy who's going to the gym,
and this holds like, this is the shit, bro.
- If you're just lifting, yeah.
If you're just going for like Max Bench,
that kind of shit.
- Anybody watching will know, you know,
the original, have you heard of Jack 3D?
- Yeah, I took that too.
- Yeah, she was nuts.
- And what's crazy, too, is back then,
it was proprietary blends in a lot of the products,
and it was still the norm with no education available,
no YouTube to really tell you what to look for.
- Also, no oversight.
- Yeah, so these companies would basically sell you
for, you know, 50 bucks, a tub of like a powder,
flavored tub of just like the stimulant.
And then it was like all the other ingredients
for vasodilation, they're like, fuck you,
you're just getting DMA, bro.
- Yeah, you were just getting like straight meth.
- Yeah, yeah.
- It was crazy.
There was so much, those were the wild west days
of like GNCs and like local vitamin shops.
- Yeah.
- Because you could get stuff that really worked.
Like worked like something that's highly illegal,
and you could buy it with a credit card.
- And the sales tactics were just like so ruthless,
but you couldn't really prove them otherwise.
Like it was always like a pit bull with like giant muscles
with a cover of it with like lightning bolts.
- Yeah.
- It's funny to you because some of these companies,
it's like now we're in the mix competing
with them on shelves or whatever,
but I remember being like convinced back when I was a teenager
by them, oh, you need, you know, gackic,
luchic and creakic in this combo that cost 250 bucks.
- Yeah.
- And it's like, you know, literally a press tablets
of like glutamine or something at a dose
that doesn't even help.
And they're telling me like this would jiggle
or use to fuckin' preferably Olympia.
- Sure.
(laughing)
It was like, look at the before and after of Lee Prius.
He lost like 50 pounds of pure fat
and kept all his muscle from cell tech.
- Oh, that's a dirty thing about those bodybuilders
back in the days.
They couldn't admit that they were on gear.
So they were all just telling you they were taking this stuff
and then they would be spokespeople for it
and it's, God, it was so deceptive.
It was so creepy and you would have to know someone
at the gym.
You know, I would just be born to be like me, Haney.
Like, no, that's not how he got that way.
- Yeah.
- You gotta take the real stuff.
This is what he's actually taking.
So many people didn't think that those bodybuilders
were on like hardcore steroids.
- Yeah, a lot of, yeah.
It's a deception at a mass scale for sure.
I don't know.
- The whole sport?
- Yeah.
- The whole sport was just a complete like,
three-card money game.
- Yeah.
It's crazy 'cause now it's almost full circle
'cause I was back then, you know,
at least at the time when I didn't know any better.
Oh, you know, I guess this guy must be natural
'cause he told me so or whatever.
And it's like, I'm skeptical, but like,
and, you know, in hindsight, it's absolutely ridiculous.
But now a lot of bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming
'cause it's more normal to be transparent
and also not mislead people and, you know,
unethically sell things and just reality check people
and what it's gonna take to be at that level
and is it the risk you wanna, you know,
subject yourself to because back in the day too,
it was like, you didn't know if you had good genetics
or not when it came to certain dosage responses.
So you would like, always think the next guy's just
taking more than you.
It would result in guys unspokenly thinking,
this guy must just be taking five X, the amount of shit I'm on.
So I need to go to like five to 10 grams
of total gear per week now and you would just like,
that's what led to so many early deaths
and bodybuilding, too.
So.
- I think there's another thing, another factor is that
the consequences of lying and getting caught now are huge
because if you lose all credibility and people know
that you're just a bullshit artist--
- Yeah, that's it.
- And then they'll never trust you again.
Like, you have one chance to tell the truth forever.
- Yeah.
- And the moment you violate that, you're always a liar.
And that's a giant fucking issue with whether it's actors
or anybody, you know, like all these guys who prep for roles
and they're talking about it now.
Like, oh, I took Anavar, I took this, like Mickey Rork did
when he was talking about that movie, The Wrestler.
You know, I remember they were asking him
on whatever talk show he was on.
He's like, oh, I fucking took everything.
What are you talking about?
I took-- - That guy was a shy
and ear of interviews for that kind of stuff.
- Well, he's a wild dude, he'll tell the truth.
Yeah, but you have one chance to tell the truth forever.
- Yeah.
- You violate that and you're always gonna be a bullshit artist.
- Yeah, a guy who's pretty good about that now
is a Frank Guerrilla.
- Yes. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- He was doing some like men's health thing.
And I have never seen men's health talk about steroids
forthcomingly.
- Interesting.
- Yeah, so they had him on a sit down interview.
And they were like, so, you know,
what's it take to be-- - Is this recent?
- Yeah, so he lasted with him last year.
- Oh, right.
- It's not months ago.
- Is this one he was talking about Anavar?
- Yeah, and he talked about his TRT protocol
and kind of like the realities of how impactful it actually is
and improving his performance and how it makes him feel.
And he was just like pretty non-trigger coated about it.
- Well, he's a good example because he was clean
for a long time.
- Yeah.
- Like he had like very low testosterone
because he was just going on willpower.
He was really just working out on willpower.
Actress Dar lives the lid on fitness recovery
in the reality behind the scenes physiques.
Frank Hill's 60 gets real about Hollywood steroids.
They all do it.
That is a fact.
But he was not on anything for a long time,
like deep into his 50s and he got his testosterone take.
He's good friends with Brian Calon.
And, you know, he got his testosterone taken.
It was fucking nothing.
He had like zero.
But he was just very disciplined and working out hard.
But he didn't look like he was on gear.
He just looked like he was ripped.
He was like shredded.
He was like in really good shape
'cause he trained every fucking day
and he was doing a lot of boxing.
So a lot of like heavy caloric expenditure,
a lot of like long rounds, hitting the back,
hitting mitts, doing sparring.
You know, you're going to burn off so much calories
and also you're going to like your metabolism
is going to be like completely jacked.
So then for him to talk about,
okay, now I got on this and then I got on that.
And this was the improvements in my sleep,
my mood, everything got better.
'Cause, you know, he's talking.
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- It's about as like his testosterone
when he got a test, it was super low.
- Yeah, yeah, it's probably one of the few examples
that are actually still to this day, though,
if somebody being like a really transparent,
I actually saw the rock talking about peptide use recently,
which is kind of like a...
- Interesting.
- Yeah.
- Dipping his tongue in the water.
- Yeah, exactly.
- He's lost a ton of weight, man.
- Oh, dude, yeah, he kind of crazy.
- Yeah, and there's a lot of speculation about
if it's like a health thing or what,
but that's tough to know because he just had the role
where he gained the most eyes he ever has, too.
- Right, right, but that, I think I got that
out of be terrible for him.
- Oh, for sure.
- But it's like, would you have subjected yourself to that
if you knew, I don't know if he would have known,
but you would have thanked proactively,
he would know how close he is to kind of like an issue,
being probably pretty close, 50 years old,
and getting up to 300 pounds.
- Yeah, I just mean, I think he probably had more
preventative screening before that role
to know he could even subject himself to it without dying,
'cause it's like a pretty risky endeavor
to go become the biggest you've ever been at that age.
So to then downsize after the theory is that
he was literally about to die essentially.
So that's why he lost so much weight now.
And I'm thinking, I think maybe he's just like,
trying to take like a health phase
and kind of like come down and wait for a bit,
and he'll probably like crank it back up.
- Honestly, I think just this is pure speculation,
I haven't talked to him about this.
I think based on what he tried to do with this matching machine,
I think he's trying to win an Oscar
and he's trying to be a real actor,
'cause he was really good in that movie.
Did you see it?
- Not yet, planning on it though.
- It's the best mixed martial arts movie ever.
That's not saying a lot, 'cause they all suck.
But it is the most accurate in terms of historical matches.
Like they had all the matches like with the eager
of a tension, all these different people that he fought,
that Marker actually fought.
And it's just a good movie.
It's a really good movie.
Like Emily Blunt plays his crazy girlfriend,
and she's out of her fucking mind.
And to the point where they're arguing right before he fights,
and you're getting anxiety watching like,
"Oh, Jesus, fucking Christ."
It's just such a crazy toxic relationship.
It is Emily Blunt, right?
I didn't fuck that up, did I?
That is, she's fucking great in it too.
It's just a really good movie
that I think would have gotten a lot more credit
if it wasn't a mixed martial arts movie.
Because I think mixed martial arts movie is like,
"Oh, it's some fucking meathead."
Like, rah, rah, rah, you know, bullshit movie.
But it's a very good movie, and he is Marker.
- Oh, he was so accurate.
- So good, and not just the fighting stuff, man.
The fighting stuff was great, but the acting stuff,
like he played that guy, and I know Mark.
I was like, "Fuck, that's Mark, that's nuts, it was so good."
It was a really good movie.
So what I think he's doing is the same thing
Batista's doing, Dave Batista for inverse.
- Well, Dave Batista lost a lot of weight too.
- Yeah, but I guess I mean like,
typically when actors are trying to get taken more seriously
for more impactful artists to creative roles,
it's almost like the Jack Meathead guy downsizes
to do something more, you know, like,
I don't know, artsy?
- Yeah, but like, this is getting as yoked as possible
in order to be the art, or as Batista's like,
fully downsize, I think now.
- Yeah, but I think what I'm saying is now,
what he's doing now, I think he's probably trying
to get different kinds of roles, roles where like,
I mean, if you've ever met him,
it's like a superhero, he looks like a superhero.
Like, we worked out together.
He came to the gym and I brought a bunch of comedians,
we worked out and hung out.
Like, Tony Klinchcliff was in his glory,
'cause you know, he loves wrestling.
We're all in the sauna together hanging out
with the rock.
- There was the first time he probably
still doesn't know that he uses a gear.
- What's that?
- He probably still doesn't know that he uses a gear.
- What do you mean?
- Klinchcliff is just like,
- Oh, Klinchcliff doesn't know that he knows he uses a gear.
- I still remember the episode where he was dumbfounded
that you and Job thought that he was doing anything.
(laughing)
- Tell me, he is locked into being a 12 year old
pro wrestling fan for the rest of his life.
It's like a religious thing for him.
It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin.
(laughing)
She gave birth to Jesus.
Like, I'm not kidding.
Like, he fucking loves pro wrestling so much
that he is completely locked in.
- He's a good example though of like,
a reasonably in-the-no guy who has friends in the space too.
Like you and, you know, Job know about this stuff.
- Yeah.
- And even he was like surprised that you guys thought that
at the time.
- It is funny.
It is funny when you think about it.
- So imagine just the average person, they probably, you know.
- Right, and also he's, you know, been very coy about it
and saying, actually not really coy, probably deceptive, right?
- Just like strategically perfect in his tax
when it comes to avoiding it.
- Yes, that's the best way to describe it.
Instead of saying, I've never taken any steroids,
he's kind of like, look over there.
(laughing)
- Yeah, exactly.
- But everybody who knows knows, you know,
it's one of those things.
It's like, you look at him and you're like, there's no way.
There's no way, there's just no way.
- I think I can't imagine talking about peptides
and putting the feelers out there
would not eventually transition to like, you know.
It was recommended to me by my doctor to be on,
you know, hormone support or whatever.
- 100%.
- Yeah, like I mean, you're kind of in that realm talking
about it at this point, you know.
- Just come out and say it.
I've always just come out and said it.
I don't see any problem with it.
But I don't have that kind of a reputation.
Like the problem of like being the pro wrestling thing
is like your role model for the youth and, you know,
you have to, especially a guy like that.
He's a giant movie star.
You don't want to be telling everybody you're on gear.
- They probably wasn't for like a big chunk
of his early career.
- His early career, right.
Yeah, his early career, I don't think he was.
- I guess the problem is when you're like,
when I really became successful,
is when I just sauce my face off.
- Yeah, that's the thing.
When he became a superhero.
I mean, the first time I met him,
he had cowboy boots on, so he's even taller.
And he just looked like a fucking brick shit house.
I'm like, I think I'm not even a real person.
This isn't a real person.
This is a superhero.
- Yeah, yeah.
I, yeah, it's crazy, dude.
But I think he's still jacked.
- He's still proportionally to relative to what he was.
- Yeah, it's kind of like anybody he used to be
a bodybuilder or had significant amounts of stuff.
Even me, people in my videos are like,
where you're, you know, you've lost everything.
And it's like, okay, I'm not like non-existent anymore.
I'm just like not a bodybuilder anymore.
You know what I mean?
- Yeah.
- With him, it's like, he's still yoke.
He's like, two, thirty, two, four, or whatever.
- Yeah, the thing is like, super gear heads
were always criticized.
Oh, you were going to a fucking trip now.
They get crazy.
They said that about Batista, too.
But he's like, two-forty.
- I think you just gotta stop wearing
like the weird tapered Gucci suits.
So just make some look a little bit more slender
than it is not complimentary to his physique.
He's still jacked, too.
- Yeah, but it does, it is complimentary.
If you didn't know what he used to look like.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- What's crazy?
Like you look at him, the guy looks fucking great.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, objectively, if you just look at it
with no baseline.
- Like pull up a photo of day Batista now.
- And he's also just getting older.
Like there's gotta be some level
where you get acceptance of like,
okay, you're allowed to the outside so you don't die.
- Yeah, you could die, that's the thing.
You're, if you're pushing gear at that age.
So there's, yeah, like look at Batista on the right.
You wouldn't say that's a small guy, you know?
That's not a small guy.
He's a big fucking dude,
but he's just slimmer now.
He looks like, like, if you saw him at like Alex Pereira,
you don't think Alex Pereira is small,
but you know, he's 200 and fucking 40 pounds.
- Yeah, if he was bodybuilding for a while
and then designed to convert to, you know, MMA.
- That's the thing.
But he also got, like that's what he looks like now.
Like that's not a small guy.
- Yeah, and he's like, I don't know how old, but I mean.
- That's 2025, he's gotta be 50, 56, 56.
So that's, he's fucking shreddy, he looks fucking gigantic.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, I think he actually did a role recently
where he bulked up what I think about it.
He went to, like, it was like fat weight too, which is crazy.
- Yeah, that was that glass onion.
Was that what it was called?
There was some, some movie that he did.
It was a really good movie.
It was a movie where like some billionaire
had everybody come to his island for some crazy party
and there was a murder.
What was that called?
- I think it was glass onion, but I don't know if it was glass onion.
- He was huge for glass onion.
He got gigantic, he got big for something else too.
But I think he was like playing, I don't remember what his role was,
but playing some former athlete or something along those lines.
- Yeah, he was housey, dude.
- It's weird when you get really big for a movie that sucks.
You know what I mean?
Or kill yourself for a movie that sucks.
- Yeah, I hope it did well.
- Like Jesus.
- Christian Bale did that for the machinist.
He almost died.
- 75 pounds again for Knock at the Cabin.
- Oh, that's what it is.
Not, what was that movie?
Show me what that looked like.
- Oh yeah.
- Screen.
- Knock at the Cabin.
What was that movie?
- A horror movie on, I did not watch it.
- Wow.
- A horror movie, huh?
- Do you watch horror movies?
- Oh yeah, I love a good horror movie.
He was 315.
- Yeah. - Jesus.
- So now he's 240.
Yeah, it's much, much more sustainable.
Yeah, but that's like a weird weight.
That's like, what the fuck did he get that big?
And again, he probably did that at like 52,
which is fucking dangerous.
- Yeah.
- You've probably got sleep apnea,
you're all fucked up.
- Yeah.
- At least they're under that too recently.
- She did it for monster.
- I know, no, again.
- She did it again.
- Yeah.
- Don't do that.
- Blood Charlies.
- Oh God.
- That's real?
- Yeah.
- What is it for?
- I forget the movie.
I just saw this movie the other day.
- I think some women, they're probably like a lady like her,
the public, Tully.
- I don't know if that is.
- Might not be new.
- I just saw it.
- It's such a flex when you're a hot lady
to get fat and gross.
And like when she did monster,
she shaved her eyebrows off.
- Did you see the Sidney Sweeney like boxing?
- I didn't see that.
- Not that she got fat and gross,
but like she gained some weight.
- Ditchie?
- Yeah.
- That movie got zero attention.
The Christie Martin movie.
- Oh yeah.
- 'Cause it was like three decades past
when anybody gave a shit.
- Oh.
- You know what I mean?
- I at least got the impression I haven't watched it.
So I could be way off based that it was kind of like
one of those artistic kind of like,
probably look at my versatility in roles kind of setting.
- Yeah.
- Oh what do I know?
- I don't know what I'm talking about.
- In that movie, did she gain weight?
They might have put her in a costume.
- Well, they said she gained like 30 pounds of muscle
or something, which is like the typical headline nonsense.
- Yeah.
- Poor shit.
- But she definitely like, you know,
took it seriously and gained the weight
that she needed to look whatever the role was for sure.
- Yeah, that's such a weird thing though.
The acting world, you have to really change your,
like Robert Jeneiro was the first guy to do it
for "Raging Bull."
- You remember Tom Cruise in "Tropic Thunder"?
- Yeah.
- Yeah, but that was a fat suit.
- Oh yeah, yeah.
- Yeah.
- I mean, 'cause they made his forearms fat,
shaved his head.
He was fucking great in that movie.
- It's like a movie.
- Oh fuck, what a movie.
That was the last bang before "Woke."
It was the last movie that you could ever do
like that before "Woke" kicked in.
And essentially ruined great comedies.
'Cause you couldn't go too far.
You can't do that anymore.
You just get in trouble.
- Yeah, it's like back then.
If you were to ask, okay, you know,
have a hit list of just like,
ready to laugh your ass off movies
that are just like low effort.
You don't have to think too much.
You can just sit down and enjoy.
There's a bunch of bangers from back then.
- Yeah.
- But it's like, now it is.
I mean, know what to go to.
- They don't happen anymore.
Like the "Farelly Brothers" movies,
like "Kingpin", "Fucking Great" movie.
You know, there's so much something about Mary.
There's so many of those like outrageous hysterical movies
that it was funny, I asked Robert Downey Jr.
I was like, I go, you couldn't do blackface
in a movie today goes, oh, you could do it.
But what would happen afterwards is the big deal.
He got it in like, it's like the scene in a movie
where the elevator door closes right before the monster gets
to you.
He got there just in time.
- Hey, like it was perfect timing where you didn't suffer
from it.
- No, yeah, it's crazy to see the Delta and just like,
I don't even know what to watch right now Netflix now.
- Well, with comedies, it's really fucking hard.
It's really hard.
The only thing that's really wild and free is standup comedy.
Like to do a comedy movie and just go full-tropic thunder.
It's almost impossible today.
- Yeah.
- But if somebody did it, if somebody just self-financed it,
oh my god, it would fucking kill.
It would make so much money and then it would open
up the floodgates because people still want that.
They still, it's not that you agree with everything
these people are saying and doing.
It's comedy.
I don't agree with John Wick killing everybody.
You know what I mean?
But he's not really killing everybody.
It's a fucking movie and it used to be that you knew that
when you went into these movies before everybody was looking
for everything to potentially be offended by.
It's just like ruined everything.
- What do you watch now?
- I don't watch comedies anymore.
- But like, just in general, do you have any like,
kind of just like low barrier or just like sit down
and turn my brain off.
- Oh, there's a lot of great stuff.
You know what I watched last night, Jamie?
You recommended Pluribus?
Is that what it's called?
- Holy watch the first episode.
- Holy shit.
- Holy shit.
Holy shit is a good, holy shit is a good.
It's a new Apple show.
And I don't want to give away too much,
but it has something to do with aliens.
And aliens send a transmission to earth.
And there's this insane impact on society.
But it's like fucking total left field movie.
You don't see it coming.
It's crazy or not movies, television show.
And again, like Jamie, I've only seen the first episode.
But it's great.
It's like holy shit, it's giving you anxiety.
- It's so good.
- Did you guys watch, what was that other Apple show
that was really good?
It was like in a office setting.
I can't believe I'm forgetting.
- Sevens.
- Yeah.
- Sevens is great.
Especially the first episode or the first season.
First season was great.
After a while they get a little weird.
'Cause you're like, you're running this very strange game
that you're doing.
Like, people remember and don't remember.
And then you're fucking with the guy's head.
So you can remember and they should.
- Yeah.
What about a stranger thing's in it?
Those are two that my girlfriend has me watching right now.
- I watched the first episode of Stranger Things
last night as well, or yesterday as well.
That was great.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, that's a, dude, it's kind of crazy.
How much time is between these seasons now?
It's like you finish.
I almost like can't, oh, don't want to commit to something.
'Cause it's like, well, if I like it.
- Yeah.
- Fuck you to me, you know?
- Fuck you.
- It really makes three years.
- Yeah. (laughs)
Game of Thrones.
It's a great example, though.
- Oh, dude, how's the dragon?
Like, good luck seeing the next season, bro.
Well, not only that, like,
unfortunately with House of Dragons,
it's got a follow game of Thrones,
which is like one of the best series of all time.
And the characters just aren't as compelling
for whatever reason.
And so I don't know who the fuck anybody is.
So the new season starts, I'm like, who's that?
- Yeah, and maybe I just have like monkey brain,
but I'm watching.
I'm like, I didn't see a dragon the whole fucking episode.
(laughs)
- I need a dragon.
- I feel ripped off.
- Yeah, I need a dragon and I need that dragon
to fucking kill somebody.
I need to burn somebody alive.
- Yeah, there's a lot of great shows now.
But again, it's very hard to make a great comedy.
You can make a great, like, mindless entertainment,
like fun show.
Slow horses, that's a great show.
It's a, is that an Apple show?
I believe it is, yeah.
That's another Apple show.
With Gary Oldman, it's a spy of M5, or M5.
What are the M5?
What do they call themselves?
- M5.
- M5.
The numbers, the person, I think, it's the...
- Whatever, I don't know.
- Whatever it is.
- It's a spy show, British spy show.
That's a really good show, it's a M5.
- Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of great shows to watch.
Like, there's, I think it's probably the best time ever
for content if you just want to sit and be entertained.
It's probably the best time ever, because of streaming.
'Cause streaming instead of, you know, one episode,
you're watching a show and it takes place over an hour,
and then the next episode is totally different,
a totally different subject line, different story.
No, it's like the thing, you get locked into these characters,
like, sopranos, I think, was like the first one
to really do that, absolutely.
And drag it out over, you know, many, many seasons.
We have this, like, running storyline.
- Yeah, yeah, it's a, I'm kind of just, like,
tuned out of TV at this point.
I just watch what my girlfriend wants to watch,
and Stranger Things, and it is the thing right now.
- Yeah, I watch the new it show.
- Yeah, I watch the first episode of that, too.
That looks great.
- It's like oddly overlapping with the Stranger Things.
I feel like I'm kind of watching the same show.
- Oh my gosh. - Kind of.
- Like, obviously, totally different overall stories,
but, like, you know, you have kids in these kind of like,
- An evil things.
- And yeah.
- I don't know, like, wreck an episode,
but they mentioned it, not specifically it,
but a story about, like, an extraterrestrial evil being
called it in a Stranger Things episode.
I'm like, this is a weird fucking reference
for these being at the same time right now.
- Yeah.
- Well, they probably didn't plan that out, right?
- Yeah, I don't-- - I don't know, man.
- What is it called, welcome to Derry?
Is that what it's called? - Yeah.
- The new one.
- But it's good.
That's good, too.
- The release date scheduling makes absolutely no sense
for Stranger Things, too.
It's like in batches, and the next batch is coming out
on Christmas.
- And then the final one is new.
- New years?
It's like, the exact times you, like,
probably can't bang out all the episodes or, like,
- Right.
- You're gonna have to force your family to sit there with you,
- It's gonna be on, though.
- What's that?
- That's what high school kids can.
- Yeah, high school kids can.
- It's their vacations.
- Well, I think Stranger Things is so big,
they could fucking make it so you can only watch it
at three o'clock in the morning,
and it would still get 30 million views.
- But, like, just such a weird choice, I don't know.
- Well, it's just weird that it takes so long
to make one of those damn things
that you have to wait three years in between seasons,
and then you have these kids that are playing 15-year-olds,
now they're fucking 30.
- Yeah.
- It's kinda weird.
- You can tell some of them, it's like,
how do you make you look as young as possible?
- Yeah, you give them goofy haircuts,
and then there's also, like, spoiler alert.
There's some computer-generated imaging,
so they're using some sort of an AI program
to make scenes with the kids when they were young,
and you kinda can tell, but you kinda can't tell.
It's like, really good.
- Yeah, yeah, now it is.
It's like, you feel like you can just,
"Hey, I generate the whole thing," but.
- Yeah.
Well, it's getting close, you know,
it's getting to the point where, you know,
there's no excuse for waiting three years
because you could have AI generate scripts
and do it in an hour.
- What about F1, you guys following it all right now?
- The show, or the actual racing.
- No, just the actual racing.
- I went to the F1 that was in Austin, it was amazing.
- This year?
- Yeah.
- Okay.
- It's awesome.
- I think right now, it's the first time in the last 15 years,
they've had three drivers coming down to the final race
to win the championship between them
and the final races this weekend.
- Oh, really?
- Yeah, it's like, where is it?
- I think it's in Abu Dhabi, I don't know.
That might have been the race that just happened,
but it was nuts, dude.
It's, 'cause right now, you had McLaren
who was like a shoe in to have their main driver,
or at least the guy who was in the lead, take it,
but they're refusing to favor one over the other,
which is a typical strategy for whoever's in the lead.
You'll have the other one kinda like block people for them
to make sure they win the drivers championship.
- They're refusing to do that?
- Yeah, they're like making sure
they can have equal opportunities to win,
but the net result might now be none of them win,
and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing.
- Oh, that's crazy.
Is it because the drivers aren't willing to do that?
- I guess, but also just lack of enforcement
from the pit boss like Team Guy,
who's like supposed to be enforcing team principles
and whatnot.
- It is kind of funky that that's how you win.
- Yeah, it's a team game.
- I mean, there's not, there's team generated points
between the two drivers,
which can result in the like team championship,
but the thing that most people actually care about
is who's the best driver in the world,
and that will be coming down to one person,
even if it's a guy from a team that won the thing.
They're still competing against each other,
and sometimes they can get pretty reckless
where there, you know, one is not willing to compromise,
and he'll like blow the whole thing up
to make sure that he has the best opportunity,
understandably, but it's also like,
you guys are getting paid tens of millions of dollars,
and maybe you should listen to your fucking guy
who's telling you what to do.
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Yeah, I get it, but then again, if you're on another team,
you're like, "Well, this is kind of bullshit,
"because this guy didn't really win the race,
"he won the race because his friends blocked everybody."
Yeah, sure enough, but I mean, like, part of it is kind of like that.
That's like part of the strategy.
Oh, I get it.
I get it, but maybe we should have been in that strategy,
'cause if it is a race, I guess it's just problematic,
'cause it's not a race.
It is a race, I guess it's just problematic,
'cause it's so bandwidth-intensive to manage the two drivers
that if they're equally trying to win
and only one is more likely to,
what may very well happen on this weekend
is they both don't win.
Interesting.
Yeah, so I got a tour of the McLaren pit last year,
and they showed me like all the different technology
that's involved, and they gave me a rundown of how much engineering
is involved in these things and explained everything.
It's crazy.
They're all just trying to shave tenths of seconds out of turns,
and then it all accumulates over the course of the race.
Yeah, it's like pretty psychotic
when you look at what the differential is
and kind of like what really separates these guys,
it's often just like minuscule amounts,
and just like the littlest mistake, you know?
What are those guys on?
That's what I wanna know.
Do they test them?
They are tested, but not to the rigor of like an Olympic.
Do they test them for a gorilla mind?
I'm sure they're probably using it.
This is probably a good thing for them to take.
Probably for something that's not banned, yeah?
But is any of this stuff banned, do you think?
No.
None of it.
This is all like very straight edge,
like really tried and true new tropics
that work through kind of like endogenous pathways
or things that there was backfill neurotransmitters
similar to like the creatine deficiency
that we talked about.
If you backfill it and you can otherwise, you know,
have a readily available source of phosphocreatine
to offset ATP deficits,
L-tyrosine stuff like that,
similar just in regards to dopamine, for example.
I'm an hour in and I feel it's legit.
Yeah, it's very legit.
And again, it's very delicious.
So congratulations on that.
Oh, thank you.
Those guys lose a ton of weight too during those races.
Oh, dude, so much water loss.
'Cause you're fucking hot as shit in those suits
'cause you don't burn alive if you crash.
Yeah, so new different strategies like hyperhydration,
using things like liquid glycerol
could be impactful to retain more water.
They wear a diaper.
I don't know, but how long is the race?
Um, it could be, I think it depends,
but it's like upwards of an hour, an hour and a half.
So.
Yeah, just piss yourself.
Yeah, just sit in your own pee for an hour and a half.
Yeah, you would have to.
I would imagine with that kind of money on the line,
just fucking let it go, baby.
Yeah, I don't even know if you'd have to though,
if you're just perspiring like a motherfucker.
They come out drenched.
Right.
Yeah, and they've lost.
That's good point.
But sometimes in the sauna, I have to pee.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, sometimes I'm like 15 minutes into a sauna session.
I'm like, god damn it, I can't hold it.
So I gotta open the door and go out and piss outside
and climb back in again.
Have you ever tried glycerol for hyperhydration?
No, what is that?
It's just like straight up glycerol.
It's like a sugar, but it also has a hyperhydrating effect.
They can hold upwards of an extra pound of body water
if you have it as a supplement.
So some endurance athletes will use it before events
in order to retain more water in a way that is not.
It enhances like thermal regulation,
your ability to tolerate stress.
You don't lose, you don't dehydrate as fast.
There's a lot of upsides for it's kind of like a unique application.
Maybe even avoiding pissing at nighttime.
It could be really potentially, yeah.
Oh, that would help because I always have to pee.
Yeah, one thing that helps me is sauna before bed though.
Sauna before bed, I can generally sleep through the night.
Oh, yeah.
So I'll do like a session about an hour before I go to sleep
and no water after that.
Oh, yeah.
That usually does it.
Yeah, if you don't water cut off,
that's like pretty regimented.
It's probably the best overall strategy.
As long as you make sure you hydrate in the morning.
So I'm pretty diligent about that.
First step in the morning, amino acids with water.
I do that 99% of the time.
Like first thing, before coffee, before anything.
Can you put electrolytes in it?
Yeah, yeah.
I take a Gary Brekka stuff.
It's called perfect aminos.
It's aminos and electrolytes.
I get that in first thing in the morning.
Just, you know, get it out of the way.
And I didn't used to do for the longest time.
I would just hit the gym right away
and just drink water when I was in there.
But I feel a difference.
What about, I thought step one was cold plunge.
Yeah, it depends.
I haven't cold plunged in the last three weeks
'cause I got some stem cells.
And I'm still saunaing.
So it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this
in terms of like what you should
and shouldn't do post stem cell injection.
I have a very minor Achilles tear
when I was elk hunting in September.
I twisted my ankle pretty bad.
And I didn't think anything of it.
I stopped limping after like 15 or 20 minutes.
And I was like, I think I'm okay.
And I was wearing, at the time,
I was wearing very light boots.
They're like, you know, just a real light boot
that you wouldn't do for heavy mountain trekking.
And we did some steep elevation.
And then the real problem is going down.
And you know, when you're going down
like several thousand feet over the course of like an hour.
It's fucking brutal.
And I twisted one of my ankles.
And then the next day I put on a much higher
more rigid boot with great ankle support.
And that was fine for the rest of the trip.
But then, you know what?
That's the fucking worst.
You just gotta like stare at the ground
the entire time you're walking
'cause the littlest off step,
you just roll your ankle or--
Not with that, you could die.
Yeah, you know, you could die.
It's, we were in pretty steep country in Utah.
But interestingly, I didn't notice anything was wrong
until I'd get into a push-up position, which is weird.
So when, you know, I do 100 push-ups every morning,
100 push-ups, 100 bodyweight squats.
That's my warm-up before I do anything.
And so when I got into like a high push-up position
with like my butt up in the air,
it's a lot of stretching on the Achilles.
And my left Achilles was fucking killing me,
like sharp pain.
I was like, fuck, this hurts.
And I thought maybe it needs to stretch out.
So I did some like jump rope, doesn't bother me.
Jump rope doesn't bother me.
Nothing else bothers me.
But that position bothered me.
And it was bothering me for like five weeks.
And I was like, oh, I gotta get this looked at
because it seems like it might be getting worse
every time I do that.
And so I got it scanned and there's a minor tear
and my Achilles and Achilles' tears
are a fucking nightmare.
You know, if you blow out your Achilles,
that's a nightmare.
It's a long rehabilitation process.
Blood flow to the area.
Especially at 58.
It's a fucking, that's a long recovery.
I'm like, I'm looking at a year
before I could do everything again.
Then you lose all your gains, all your cardio gain,
everything, you can't move, right?
It's your fucked.
So I got a stem cell shot in there.
And there's a lot of debate about when you should
be able to cold plunge after stem cells.
And a lot of the literature seems to say three months.
It doesn't seem to think sauna,
there's more indication that sauna
is probably therapeutically beneficial for the stem cells
because the idea is that these stem cells
are still in the area trying to heal the tissue.
When you cold plunge, you kill them.
But when you're doing sauna,
you're increasing blood flow and it might help them.
So what they said is like,
I wouldn't do anything for a couple weeks, nothing.
And then after that, just sauna for a while.
Yeah.
So I haven't done a cold plunge in over a month.
Things excessive, not that scared.
I'm scared to go back in.
'Cause I was so used to it.
Oh, you got to get over the hurl again.
I'm so scared.
Every time I do it, I almost don't do it.
Every fucking time I do it, I almost don't do it.
So like for the past month,
it's just been get up and just workout
and then sauna afterwards.
What's the rehab stack?
Is it any different than what you were already doing
or is it kinda like?
BBC157, TB500.
That's it.
It's definitely improved.
BPC local in the--
Yes.
Achilles?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right there.
Or just pinch the subcure area and come back.
I shove it right in there.
I think local is the way to go.
I've done it subcutaneously, like in the side
and love handles.
Doesn't have the same effect.
Yeah, if you can get it to the area, it's like why not.
Yeah, I think BPC157 locally is the way to go.
But it's definitely getting a lot better.
It doesn't hurt at all anymore.
Yeah, I'm just making sure it fully heals up.
Yeah, interesting note on kinda like the hormone support stuff
this past month, the FDA actually removed
the most of the black box warnings off of women's HRT.
Yes, yes, pretty amazing.
Yeah, really amazing because so many women were lied to
for so long.
They were told that there's all these negative effects
of supplementing your hormones.
But my God, how many fucking people just said
lost quality of life for fucking nothing
for no science at all?
It's just a complete horse shit.
But there's so much bad fucking science out there, man.
Like it's a real problem, it's hot as shit in here.
There's so much bad science out there, man.
It almost gets to a point where you almost have to look
at things through the lens of does this sound like nonsense.
Yeah, well, and then where do you go?
Like who do you trust?
You know, unless you, you're well versed
in who the respectable online people are.
Yeah, like you might see us, you know,
however many studies that say fill in the blank exotic compound
is like totally ineffective.
And it's like, who was it tested on for how long?
What was the dosage, you know?
And like it might be a completely useless interpretation
for your specific nuance scenario.
And if you hear hordes of anecdotes
from everyone in your circle you trust,
who actually knows what they're talking about,
has been in the trenches, knows their body well.
You can't really ignore that.
What was the narrative about female hormones?
And why did they, why did they do that for so long, do you know?
So I think it was in the 90s, the Women's Health Initiative
were assessing the viability and safety profile
of hormone replacement therapy.
And I might butcher this a little bit,
but in general the, you know,
overall context is relatively accurate.
I'm sure, and it was like of the 1000 women or something
that they tested HRT, which HRT put in air quotes
'cause like, not even like human bioidentical estrogen,
it was like equine horse-piss-derived estrogens.
Horse-piss?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was like literally the most synthetic, you know,
animal-derived shity estrogen that is not bioidentical at all,
and also a synthetic progestin that is not bioidentical
to progesterone, it's just like a progestinant analog
essentially that fulfills activity at the receptor,
but is otherwise like, you know, the equivalent of putting you
on like a microdose of nandrolone or a microdose
of, you know, fill in the blank progestin derived compound
or 19-nord derived compound that facilitates
progestogenic activity, but just is not progesterone.
So it's like to try and say, you know,
this horse-piss-derived estrogen formula
and the synthetic progestin we apply to these women
is the equivalent of you having been on what you would
otherwise produce as a young healthy, vibrant woman
from a bioidentical estrogen dial
and progesterone perspective, simply not accurate,
but that's like essentially the comparison that they made
and, you know, presented it as such.
And the result was a relative risk increase
of breast cancer incidence, I believe,
to the tune of like one of a thousand women,
and the absolute number was like three of a thousand
the placebo arm had breast cancer incidence,
and then I think four of a thousand had breast cancer,
so then the media ran with a 26% increase in risk.
And everybody got panicking.
- Yeah.
And like I might be misinterpreting one or two variables,
but like high level that's essentially what it was
and it caused mass hysteria and panic
and basically dictated the facilitation
of black box warnings being put on hormone therapy,
so the most aggressive FDA warning that shows
basically any clinician that's looking at it
or anybody who's gonna like take the risk of using it,
this is the most dangerous drug you could use
with the highest risk of like lethal side effects potential.
And then on top of that,
it just like wasn't representative
of what is actual replacement therapy
with what is the hormone you would be producing naturally.
So for years, you know, we went thinking,
oh, it's gonna cause clotting issues,
it's gonna cause cancers, it's gonna do this,
it's gonna do that.
And only in the most nuanced edge case scenarios
is it justified because, you know,
that person just absolutely has a quality of life
to deterioration is so significant
that it's worth it to take the risk to use
or hormone replacement therapy.
And it's like now similar to some of the like common sense
interpretation of things, like this doesn't make sense.
Look at all this literature showing
the cardio protective effects showing,
the neuro protective effect showing the bone support
and integrity, like what you lose
if you don't take these hormones,
like you're essentially giving yourself
a worst quality of life inevitably
and deteriorating your health unquestionably
with men, there is some semblance
of residual activity you can maintain
and some men maintain vibrant, you know,
reasonable testosterone production to old age,
but with women, it's kind of like,
like right when the lights shut off.
- Yeah.
- You've dropped off a cliff.
- Yeah.
- It's interesting how the initial narratives
get stuck in the public zeitgeist forever.
Like the initial narrative for testosterone replacement
was you can get testicular cancer, prostate cancer.
And it was just, it's so many people like,
I don't wanna mess around with testosterone replacement
because I can get cancer.
And then bring a viewer, explain that study
and explain the real results of that study.
And it's like, it didn't show that anybody
got prostate cancer from it, it's just not true.
- Yeah, and it's like, even the mechanism
by which they argue it would cause it
doesn't even make mechanistic sense
'cause it's like the only way you're going to increase
the prostate growth is via bringing,
and it's like, of course, when you use hormones
that are endrogens, like you're gonna grow tissues
that they're exposed to,
but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily.
And if you're a hypogonadal male who has low T
and it goes up to just the threshold
of barely acceptable, that's where the growth essentially stops.
And if you go beyond that into like, medium, normal,
high, normal, even super physiologic territory,
your prostate doesn't linearly grow in exposure.
Otherwise, bodybuilders would have massive prostate
like busting out of their bodies.
- Giant dick, man, I don't think.
- We wish, didn't have it.
- Well, how come it grows in large clitorisces in women?
- Because the physiology is essentially interchangeable
in that you could have gone in any direction
dependent on your exposure to these hormones.
- Oh, right, it's not.
- Yeah, so if a man exposes himself
the significant amounts of estrogen
and has hormone deprivation,
there are some irreversible anatomical changes,
because they've already matured that will not go away.
But with women, it's the inverse
and you could otherwise get closer to that extreme scenario
where your, once your voice box gets you
a certain anatomical development,
you can't necessarily go back to your high pitch.
- Yeah, that's a real problem.
- With D-transitioners, they keep that voice forever.
And the real problem is it never even becomes a man voice.
It just becomes weird.
- You know what I mean? - Yeah, it's like the end between.
- Trans men never develop a voice like Isaac Hayes.
- Yeah, that's one of the top things with HRT too
is like as much as I think it's so amazing
that it's being educated about
and there's widespread attention
being brought to the importance of it.
There's also the cowboy docs who almost go
to the hyper extreme of optimization
and are putting women on aggressive dosages
and testosterone saying, you've been lying too.
This is actually what you need to feel good.
And for a woman who's been asexual for years
and feels has no energy
and they are told this guy is the cutting-edge doc
who everyone sees, they will probably trust his guidance.
And as early as before, I started Marick Health,
which is my company.
My mom was getting hormone therapy guidance
from a doc who was relatively well-respected
and the dose he put her on of testosterone
was so aggressive that her voice was changing within weeks.
And I had to like cut the cord on it.
I was like, what the hell is this?
And her testosterone levels were like in the like 300 plus.
- Whoa!
- Yeah, so like you're essentially low normal
healthy male territory, not like actually,
but like on a clinical reference range
and absolutely potential for masculization.
- Yeah, and also horny as fuck.
- Potentially.
- Yeah, but it's like you didn't need to go there
probably to get to horny as fuck.
- My wife has a friend who got on it
and she's a British lady and she had a very funny phrase.
She goes, his stuff makes me feel like a bloke.
(laughing)
She goes, I'm horny like a bloke.
(laughing)
- And testosterone can be helpful in women for sure
and it's overlooked hormone that is absolutely important
in women just the same as it is in men.
It's just like you gotta kinda know what you're getting
yourself into too.
- Remember when it comes to like what is reasonable
for a doctorate to tell you you need
and at what like concentrations you should expect
blood level targets to be?
'Cause if you just go and blind,
you might end up with the most exotic,
you know like Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should be on
like the craziest cocktail ever.
'Cause he knows you're gonna feel it
and respond really, really well immediately
but then also might just like fuck you up permanently.
- Well, this is also the problem with transitioners
when you're becoming a trans man, right?
The initial impact is you alleviation of anxiety
and euphoria, you start feeling great
because that's what testosterone does for you.
It doesn't mean you're supposed to have that.
Your body's going, what the fuck is this?
And now you're essentially,
you're changing the whole cocktail of your body
and you're, you know,
and you're gonna give permanent changes
that if you make a decision when you're 14, 15 years old,
they put you in this stuff.
Those de-transitioners are some of the saddest stories man
because they've become sterile.
They'll never have children and you know,
they lose their tits 'cause they go to a doctorate
thinks you should have your mammary glands chopped off
when you're 15.
- That's fucking, we're in the weirdest of times
with all this stuff.
Because it's like what gets accepted and not accepted
and what, you know, what, again, like we were talking about
the zeitgeist when a thought gets out there
and then it's very difficult to move away from that.
And it's like, oh, you're affirming your true self.
Like really with synthetic hormones
that didn't exist in your body before,
that's your true self.
Are you fucking sure?
It sounds like this might be a social contagion.
It's like sweeping through the land
and one of those things is really interesting
is the drop off of kids identifying as trans
is it coincides directly with Elon buying Twitter.
- Oh wow.
- Yeah, like immediately when you,
'cause you used to not be able to talk about it.
You used to literally, if you,
if you dead name someone from Twitter,
meaning like if you changed your name to Dominique
and I call it Derek, I could get banned
from Twitter for life forever.
Just by using your old name.
Like if I called Bruce Caitlyn Jenner Bruce,
I would get banned from Twitter for life.
- Damn.
- 'Cause not.
But it's like this very bizarre social contagion,
this weird mind virus that went through the whole country.
And everybody just signed up for it.
Like and no one wanted to be a bigot.
So like, oh, I don't want to be a bigot.
- Yeah, I think as much as I think,
it's access to drugs is super.
Like you should have the full liberty to do whatever you want.
That's where the importance of educating yourself
is so critical 'cause you really don't know
what you're subjecting yourself to.
If you have an immature brain too, you have not.
It's even had full like frontal lobe development
to try and think you're gonna make a sound decision
with how you're gonna impact your lifelong physiology.
It's like probably.
- You can't even have a tattoo.
It's not even legal to get a tattoo
and you get your penis removed.
It's fucking crazy.
It's fucking crazy.
Oh, they know, some people know as early as three.
I've had conversations with people on this podcast.
I have friends that have trans kids
and they knew right away.
Are you sure they didn't have a fucking insane mother
and a gay child?
'Cause that might be what was going on.
And now this gay child will never have an orgasm again
'cause you've convinced them that not a gay child,
that they're a woman,
and which is in fact completely homophobic.
- Yeah.
Yeah, interesting, extreme of the scenario,
but maybe on the opposite is guys who are in their,
in adolescence who are so hypereducated
that they use the knowledge to biohack their development
into becoming as maximally tall
and like infrastructurally sound as adults as possible.
- Right, right, right.
- And that's really interesting predicament
'cause it's like any like a recently ethical doctor
will be like, there's no fucking way
I'm touching that like case of any overseeing anybody's care.
What's he doing that kind of thing?
- I was watching a podcast about this
where this guy was talking about his son
and he's short and his son is short.
His son's friends were also short
and their parents got the kid on growth
when they grew like a lot bigger than the parents.
Which is Alexander Karellen.
Do you know Karellen's story?
They call him the experiment.
He's the freakiest wrestler that has ever existed.
- I know who it is, but I don't know that.
- Specifically he was in adolescence
that he was subject to that.
- Well, this is speculation on my part, probably.
- If you've seen my photo that I have out in the gym,
the photo that I put up to remind myself
of what a pussy I really am.
- Is that when he's like about to fucking toss that thing?
- He's not got that picture, that one.
- Yeah, that's the famous one.
- That guy was 300 fucking pounds and moved like a cat.
Like unbelievably mobile and flexible
and had like an insane record.
I think it was like 280 and one or 280 and two.
Like fucking insane.
Like one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time.
But there's, they call him in Russia, they call him the experiment.
And you see his parents, his parents are like five, five, seven,
like small people and he's this fucking behemoth of a person.
And of course, the Soviet doping program is legendary.
The movie Icarus highlights that, you know,
but everybody knew about that.
The Eastern block wait lifters, the females,
they set records that were never broken again.
These were completely became men.
You know, like there's, there's a lot of evidence
that they were doing that to their athletes.
The fact that they wouldn't do it
to their most dominant wrestler in the history of the fucking sport
and the guy who was the absolute biggest freak
in the history of wrestling.
Like there was nobody like that guy.
- Yeah, we should talk about some of the Russian drugs.
I heard you bring up Trim Taz and even somebody the other day.
But before that, have you ever heard of the Lionel Messi story?
- No.
- Okay, so did you know that he was destined to be a dwarf
if he didn't get on huge amounts of growth hormone?
- Really. - Yeah, so he got supplied
with pharmaceutical growth hormone by the team
that was trying to get him to basically be with them.
- Well, he's a small guy as it is, right?
- Yeah, so he grew to what is otherwise
an acceptable adult height, but he otherwise was destined
to be literally a dwarf, whatever the social acceptable term is.
- Wow.
- Yeah, so they either paid for his pharmaceutical growth hormone
and admitted, like got it for him, paid for it, major he was taking it
or he didn't become the greatest some argue,
you know, the football player of all time.
- Well, it's also you have to take any consideration,
like how much of effect do that have on his performance?
- I mean, it's actually two things that no one else can do.
- Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown to the height he is.
- But it's not just the height.
It's the explosive movement, his ability to change direction
like better than anybody.
- The infrastructure is obviously supporting of it.
I don't necessarily know.
Yeah, it would be impossible to like really quantify
that there's no like, you know, a, b test of it.
- Right.
- Right, there's no placebo controlled trial.
- But you know, it's twin to it.
- He would not be even playing for it.
- Wow, I did not know that.
- Yeah, it's probably one of the most overlooked,
but wild cases of a professional athlete
who like needed to go like full board to the tits.
- But it comes to old, was he when they did that too?
- Like a young teen, if not a child.
- Seeing 11 years old.
- Yeah.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
- It was like you either take this at the dose
that is going to like push you to, you know,
maximal IGF1 output territory
and we get you to as high of maturation as possible
or you're not gonna be a professional player.
- How tall is Messi now?
- Five, seven.
- Wow.
That's crazy.
Well, you know, I told you the old Romero story, right?
- Probably.
- Yellow Romero is the biggest athletic freak
I've ever seen in my life.
And I've seen a lot of athletic freaks.
Like, yeah.
Yellow Romero, when he, I believe it was in Australia,
he was fighting and after the fight,
goes to a doctor, get checked up.
He had a fractured orbital, he had, you know, rough fight.
The doctor examines him and then says to the UFC,
where did you get this guy?
- Yeah.
- I tell you this?
- Yeah, and they go, hey, he's great, right?
He goes, no, no, his tendons and his eyes
are three times the size of a normal person.
- Oh, right, right.
- They say his orbital bone is already healing.
- It's crazy.
- Like, what do they do to him?
'Cause he was on the Cuban Olympic program.
- Yeah.
- You know, and the way he talks about it,
like the program was like so regimented.
In fact, they had tears of athletes
and the highest tier eight, three times a day.
The tier below that eight, two times a day.
So it motivated you literally to get more food,
to compete, and you're competing with these guys
that their entire life is wrestling.
That is everything, and it literally can feed their family.
It's a matter of whether or not their family gets food,
whether it changes your social status,
and he goes, and because of that, you become a machine.
- That's how he's saying it.
- I can do a good yellow.
- You become a machine.
And he's the biggest freak of all time.
In fact, everybody who fights him says hitting him hurts.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Robert Whitaker said, it's like hitting metal.
He goes, dude, he's like, hit the guy.
He doesn't feel like a normal person.
He goes, it's like, you're hitting metal.
- He's still competing, but in, was it one?
- Dirty boxing.
His dirty boxing was his latest one.
He's almost 50, jacked as fuck.
Now he's a heavyweight, full six pack, almost 50 years old,
fucking gigantic.
I mean, now he's got to be geared up.
I mean, I would imagine,
because he's in these like fringe leagues that, you know.
- You think.
- Their drug test is a fucking multiple choice.
(laughing)
What do you want?
- I'm on Jesus.
- He had that famous speech.
He was saying, don't forget about Jesus.
He goes, don't forget Jesus.
And everybody thought he was saying, no gay, Jesus is not gay.
And so they thought he was homophobic.
And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, for gay, Jesus.
He's saying, don't forget Jesus.
Like, Jesus is important.
And everybody's like, oh my God,
Yoel Romero used his platform to say homophobic things
after a fight.
No, he can't speak English very well, you know.
And he's religious.
- I feel like, yeah.
- That guy, he, I always felt like if you just kind of
like threw himself into the fire more,
he could just like crush it.
- The problem is cardio.
When you're carrying around that much weight, you know,
first of all, wrestling, his wrestling was above
and beyond anybody else.
- But he was just like, slug when he didn't need to.
- Well, they get in love with knocking people out,
first of all.
And that guy's explosive capacity was,
he knocked out Chris Wybman, one of the fucking
scariest flying knees I've ever seen in my life.
It was a great fight up until the moment
he put Chris Wybman into the shadow realm,
but he hit him with his flying knee, just explode.
He loves you.
So what is your other side?
- He's tired or whatever.
- That he jumps on you and his ability to close the
distance is so, it's like, you think about wrestlers.
Like, did you see Bone Nichols last knockout?
- He knocked out Adolfo Vierro with a head kick.
- Oh yeah.
- It was spectacular.
But what Bone Nichols and Elite wrestler,
they're like a top shelf blue chip wrestler.
And one of the things that wrestlers have
is this ability to close distance,
because they're, you know, they're on the outside
and they can just shoot doubles.
So that explosion naturally lends itself to closing
the distance and striking.
Because, you know, it's the same kind of thing.
If you develop good striking.
And Adolfo Vierro, who's like, fuck, it's super jacked,
but he's a Gigi Jiu Jitsu.
Gigi Jitsu is all about strength and control,
technique as well, but it's a tight game.
It's not a game of like jumping, moving across distance quick.
It's a game of they're gripping each other.
And then, you know, it's a lot about strength
and it's a lot about technique,
but it's not about closing distance.
So Adolfo Vierro is like a plotting,
like really super jack guy.
And Bone Nichols just lied on his feet moving on the outside
and just closing distance, cracking him, getting out.
And he hits him with his fucking bomb head kick
and puts him to sleep.
But it's that ability to close the distance.
Nobody did that better than Yo-L.
Yo-L was the best at that.
'Cause he's just fucking unbelievable athlete.
And with Izzy, he fought Israel out of Sanya
and Izzy said, dude, I had to stay on the outside
with that guy.
I could not just go after him
because the counters would come so fast.
Yo-L caught him with a big left hand early in the fight.
And he was like, oh, we'll fuck this.
He's like, we're gonna make this a boring fight.
I'm just gonna win a decision on this motherfucker
because it's just the consequences
of being too close to him where he can do that.
It's just, you have to fight a technical fight
with that guy.
Stay on the outside, pick Adam, move a lot,
don't set your feet ever.
Never be in a place where he can just like,
because he can just launch on you and blast you.
- Yeah, on the flip side of that,
on the leaping in the middle weight of Chimaya, ruthless to watch.
- That was like the most painful fight I've seen recently.
- Oh yeah, the trick is duplicity fight.
Yeah, well that's just levels and levels above everyone else.
- There's like closing distance
even when you know what it's about to come.
- Can't stop it, yeah.
- Once he gets his hands on you, you're fucked, yeah.
There's something about that kind of wrestling
from the Chechens and the Dagestanis.
And maybe even him more than any of the other ones
is it's just so aggressive.
And he chains things together so well.
And if you're not training with guys like that,
like Shob told me that he went to see Chimaya,
when Chimaya is in training camp for Dracostuplici.
And he called me up, he goes, dude, listen to me.
He goes, like, Shob was a top 10 UFC heavyweight.
He's been around forever.
You know, he was in camp with George St. Pierre,
when George St. Pierre was in his prime, Nate Markhart,
when Nate Markhart was in prime, he was like, dude,
I'd never seen nothing like this.
He goes, they were bringing in world-class wrestlers.
And he's fucking ragdolling them.
He goes, he's a freak.
He goes, he's going to fuck Dracostup.
Like, really?
He goes, dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked.
Turned out to be 100% accurate.
- Yeah, it was like the most obscene example I've seen.
- His wrestling is obscene.
That's a great way to put it.
His wrestling is obscene.
And if you can't compete, like this one thing that I said
about Dracost, after that fight, was like,
that gap is so wide.
It's like jumping across the Grand Canyon.
You're not going to make it.
Like, you would have to start, you'd have to get a time machine,
go back to the time when you're six
and start wrestling in Dagestan.
Like, you've gotta have those kind of skills
to compete with that guy.
Only an elite wrestler who can also strike
is gonna be able to fuck with that guy.
Unless he gets silly and decides to strike
with someone and they KO him.
Other than that, I just can't see anybody.
Fuckin' with that guy.
- Yeah, I mean, I guess it needs somebody stylistically
to match up to really--
- Bo Nickle. - Yeah.
- Bo has to grow as a fighter.
He has to grow as a fighter, and he's doing that.
I mean, he's an unbelievably dedicated and disciplined guy.
And if anybody can do it, he can do it
because he's got that elite wrestling.
Like, if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic.
But Chemiah is a much better striker right now.
At least has been up until this last fight with Vier,
which was a huge knockout.
But Vier was kind of a standing target for Bo.
- What did you think of the Usman positive test result?
Kind of interesting.
- Oh, the bigger Usman, his brother.
- Yeah, duh, that's a duh.
He's fucking easy.
- I'm a, yeah, I mean--
- It's unfortunate, you know,
because the heavyweight division is so devoid of talent.
Yeah. - Gabel Steven is the fucking guy.
- Yeah. - That's the guy.
That's the guy.
He's not even in the UFC yet.
I mean, Olympic gold medalist, fucking freak athlete,
250 pounds, moves like a cat.
That's the guy that he's, I sent a text message to Dana White.
I sent him a video of Gabel's last fight.
I said, everyone's fucked.
Everyone's fucked when this guy comes out.
He caled this guy with a left hand.
He caled this guy with a left hand,
and then took him down as he was knocked out.
Watch this knockout, 'cause it's so fucking crazy.
The speed that this guy has, first of all,
really good striking already,
and he's only been striking for like a fucking year.
But watch, when he chaos this guy,
he hits him with a punch, boom,
and then takes him down. - Ooh.
Jesus. - Dude, everyone's fucked.
And then just, well, I mean, that's just nuts, man.
That kind of speed is nuts for a heavyweight.
- Yeah. - Look at that left hook.
Boom, take some down, smash.
And then-- - That's like a video game combo.
- Exactly, and he can do backflips and shit.
When he fought in dirty boxing, he knocks the guy out,
and then he leaps over the top rope and lands on the apron.
Just leaps over the top rope with, like, effortless.
Freak.
Just so real freak.
And again, just watch this chaos.
When he chaos this guy, but first of all,
this guy has no business being in there with him.
But this is just boxing.
This is what they call dirty boxing.
Boom, so you could ground and pound guys.
- So it's just like the modern D.C. sort of?
- Oh, he's maybe even better and bigger, a lot bigger.
- So you see how he jumped over that rope?
Watch that again. - Super athletic,
but, like, doesn't kind of unassuming.
- Exactly.
Well, I mean, not really unassuming.
He's a fucking house man.
He just doesn't-- - Whoa.
I mean, he's a body fat.
- Yeah. - But we'll kind of jumped over that rope.
- Oh, yeah, when you see that, of course, it's fine.
- Watch that, just show that again.
- Yeah, I was insane.
- Well, look at the effortless--
Look at just effortless, leaps over that fucking--
That's like five feet.
He just jumps over, like, it's nothing.
- And after fighting.
- After fighting, but literally with no effort,
just hops over it like it didn't exist, lands perfectly.
He's a freak man, and he's training with John Jones,
and he's training with some of the best fighters,
and he's trying to fight every month.
He's trying to get as much experience as he can
before he gets into the UFC.
And he's coming, and everybody's in trouble.
- How old is he?
- 25.
- How old is he?
- They're all fucked.
Everyone's fucked.
I mean, everyone is fucked.
Because there's no, other than John,
there's no one that can wrestle with that guy in that sport.
And the thing about a guy who can wrestle like that,
is if he can strike like that,
the problem with wrestling is you're always worried
about the takedown, so that opens you up to strikes.
Because you're always like, every faint
you're thinking is gonna shoot for your legs,
but then boom, he catches you with a left hook.
And the speed that guy has, it's like a lethal combination.
Of athleticism, speed, power, size,
and an insane wrestling pedigree.
I mean, Olympic gold medalist.
As good as he gets with wrestling.
- I think the last time I heard you talk about a guy like this,
at least when I was on was a Pereira before he came in.
- Similar.
Similar kind of thing where he's a specialist, you know?
- You're like, watch out for this fucking guy.
- Yeah.
Oh yeah, I remember DC was like, come on, man.
I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, this guy is different.
'Cause I had been a huge fan of Pereira
when he was fighting in glory.
And you'd watch him hit guys and they'd go flying
across the ring.
Like, what the fuck is that guy made out of?
And when you like, when I interview him,
like I'll put my hand on him, it's like this table, dude.
He's like made out of oak.
Like he's fucking dense.
And there's something about the way he throws punches.
Have you ever seen him punch that machine?
You know, that machine that like generates,
like it shows you-- - It's like that for a list,
but it's like super high matter.
He hit it with his right hand because his left hand
had been bothering him and he got 190.
100, like Francis and Gano got a 129.
He got a 190 with a right hand.
It's fucking insane, dude.
I got like 150 with a kick.
This guy got 190 with a punch.
190 is insane.
And it's his right hand.
I bet his left hand is probably 200.
It's fucking, see if you can find that video.
- It's deleted from the way I was.
- He got deleted?
- The way it was being advertised in the U-G-L-S.
- Bro, the internet, people like hide it somewhere else.
- Bro, he hit so hard that Mark gottered
after he fought Khalil Roundtree
after he just beat Khalil Roundtree across the Octagon.
Mark gottered when they were announcing the KO
and raising his hand.
Mark comes up to me at the end of the fight.
He goes, "The sound, the sound it makes
when that guy hits people is ungodly."
He goes, "I've been doing this for 20 years, mate."
He goes, "It's ungodly."
Watch this.
- 170.
- Oh my gosh.
- Bro, bro.
- Yeah, he did.
- Bro.
- Bro, bro, bro.
- Yellow.
- If you pray that again, play that.
Just look at the force that this guy generates.
There's something about, it's the leverage
because of his take.
That's how it's watching it.
- 170.
- Oh my gosh.
- Well that's nuts.
That's nuts.
His power is a weird thing, man.
You're born with it.
Like nothing else.
Like there's a lot of skills that you can acquire
but there's a threshold to how hard you're going
to be able to hit.
And I think it's based on body mechanics.
It's based on the frame.
It's based on the size of your hand.
He has massive hands.
It's based on, there's just a lot of factors.
Explosive, fast twitch muscle fiber.
Some people don't have a lot of it.
Some people are more of an endurance fighter
and they don't hit his heart
but they could just get you with combinations
and they put you away eventually.
But Pereira is different, man.
It's like David Goggins always likes to say.
He's uncommon amongst uncommon men.
- Yeah.
It's interesting that his chin seems to be holding up
really well considering.
- Yeah, and he has been knocked out
before he's getting older and he seems fine.
- Well, it's because he's not cutting weight anymore.
There's nothing that fucks your chin up
more than dehydration.
When he was losing weight, he was getting down to 185 pounds
and he was weighing in the day of the fight at 226.
226, weighing in at 185, you cut weight
and then rehydrating up to 226 a day later.
Like, you don't rehydrate your brain, man.
And so you can't take shots.
You can't take shots as well.
And it's a common thread amongst fighters.
Like Jack Hermanson, he got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez
at 185 and Gregory Rodriguez is another one.
He's a freak.
Just a giant 185.
Oh, he doesn't even make sense.
You're standing next to him.
I weigh 200 pounds and I stand next to him.
I'm a little short me and I'm like,
how the fuck are you 15 pounds lighter than me?
That's not even, this is science.
It doesn't even make sense.
And so Jack went down to 170 and just got KOed the other day.
Bad, just bad.
Because I think that you're way more vulnerable.
Like, Frankie Edgar is a perfect example
because Frankie, when he was in his prime at 155,
didn't cut any weight.
He was one of the rare guys that was a 155 pound champion
that was actually 155 pounds when he fought.
And just amazing durability because of that.
Because he didn't dehydrate himself.
So he was like optimal.
And there's this point of diminishing returns
where you're physically bigger, you're stronger,
but you can't take shots.
And you also fatigue quicker
because your body essentially almost died 24 hours ago.
I mean, these guys get to death's door to make weight.
Their whole face is sucked in.
Their eyeballs are pulled back in their head.
It's kind of crazy.
Yeah, I think more attention is going to come
to how to actually ensure your brain stays safe
in the sports for longevity purposes
as people kind of realize how impactful the weight cutting
especially can be.
But also if you end up getting knocked out,
you might not come back the same.
And some of the strategies that should be employed
after those fights as well to actually restore
as quickly as possible an avoid permanent degradation.
Well, there's two schools of thought.
There's one school of thought that I'm in
which we need to expand the weight classes.
So we have more weight classes
and we need to somehow or another institute
some sort of hydration policy
where you cannot dehydrate yourself and weigh in
and pretend that you weigh one seven eight
when really you weigh two 10
because there's a lot of guys doing that.
And the other school of thought is
they should be able to hydrate with IVs.
'Cause they used to be able to hydrate with IVs.
The blood brain barrier
like in the hydration of the brain
it takes much longer to rehydrate your brain
than it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue.
And so these guys are going in there.
Their muscles are full, but their brain is dehydrated
and they're vulnerable to getting knocked out.
And I think that's what happened with Pereira,
particularly with the Izzy fight,
but Izzy caught him with a picture perfect right hand.
Just right on the chin and then followed it up
with a left hook, but it was just,
he didn't have the durability at 185
that he has at 205.
At 205 he's been dropped, like Khalil dropped him.
And guys have dropped him and Ankel I have rocked him,
but he can take it.
He can take it at 205.
- Yeah.
- And now he's talking about going all the way up to heavyweight,
which is kind of crazy.
- Yeah, I mean like all the power too.
I don't know if she does.
You don't want to see it.
- Oh yeah, I mean I would love to see him fight
John Jones at the White House.
- And what's your ideal White House card look like?
- John Jones versus Pereira for sure.
Conor McGregor versus Michael Chandler.
That would be awesome.
You know, you want to have some fun.
Like that's a fun fight.
You know, and then you would probably want
like Islam Makachev versus Ilya Tuporia.
That would be insane.
You know, maybe even at 155.
I don't know if Islam even wants to make 155 anymore,
but Ilya said he would fight him at 170,
which is crazy 'cause Ilya is smaller than me.
Like that's another guy.
- What's this walk around with?
- I don't know.
I don't know, but that's another guy that has the touch of death.
There's guys that just have freaky power.
- He doesn't let his personal shit derail
whatever is happening.
- I know, I know.
- Like you're in your late 20s and it's like not the time, bro.
You know, it's crazy.
I don't know what happened.
- Dude, I don't know what happened with the wife.
- I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I mean you can't.
I'm sure the internet has their speculation,
but the timing is very odd with like one of these interviews
he did and where somebody was almost seemed to plant
in his head that like if you meet a wife
in Miami that she's probably like not a good, you know.
- Is that where he met her?
- I think so, yeah, and it was like-
- But he lives in Spain.
- And somebody I figure it was,
but something like jokingly said,
oh you met it, it looks like you can meet quality women
in Miami crazy, like you would have never thought.
And then he was like visibly shook.
He was like what do you mean by that?
- Oh no.
- And the guy was like, did I just offend you
and you're gonna fuck me up or like what is happening right now?
- And he was just seemed to like almost internalize
that is there a reason I shouldn't trust Miami women
and I haven't considered it?
And then it's just like you can't help but think
with the timing the fucking wheels are turning.
- Oh God, I didn't know that he met her in Miami.
I don't know if that's even true.
'Cause he lives in Spain.
- Or if it even is like relevant at all,
but it's just weird timing.
- I would imagine it's relevant.
Meeting a woman in Miami.
- Like I mean the fact or certainly support
that it's like a more likely chance
that she's not the person she representing herself as
potentially.
- Well not just that, it's the culture of Miami.
I always say that if you want to starve to death
open up a bookstore in Miami.
It's like people are just partiers.
It's like you should have a passport to go to Miami.
It's barely America.
It's fun, great city, lot of fun.
But it doesn't really lend itself
to like the kind of like sturdy stay-at-home mom support
for a world champion because the discipline involved
in being not just a world champion,
but a world champion on alias level.
Like two division dominator goes up,
knocks out Charles Oliver, like it's nothing.
Which is great.
Not only that, had a celebration the night before the fall.
Celebrating his victory.
- That was almost like Gordon Ryan shit, like time is two.
- Time's two.
- Time's two, yeah.
- And even apologized to Charles.
I'm sorry it has to be you.
I love you, a great guy.
Sorry it has to be you.
Like super respectful of Charles, he's a legend.
You know, and then flatlines have been the first round.
Like he said he was going to, he's like trust me,
I'm going to knock him out in the first round.
One punch, boom, touch of death.
It's like there's guys that have, and for him,
it's like not a big guy, right?
Like not extremely muscular, like there's nothing.
He's not massive, but it's mechanics.
His mechanics are fucking perfect.
It's timing, it's fucking perfect.
Believe in himself, technique, everything.
It's like all the above.
But it's like, there's guys that you can't let hit you.
And Ilya is one of them.
And I think that probably carries all the way up to 170.
I just don't, I mean, the difference between,
so 170, look at him and then look at some of the big 170.
It's like Jack Delamadalena.
He's a fucking big guy.
Like there's like big, like Michael Venom Page.
He's fucking huge.
That would be a nightmare matchup for Ilya.
If he really did decide to go to 170, a guy like Venom,
'cause you can't hit that guy.
Like if you can't hit that guy and he can hit you,
and he's a point fighting champion,
so that is the absolute best style of the blitz,
of like being able to close distance quickly.
Nobody does that like MVP.
He's the best at it.
The best at it may be of all time.
- Yeah, when Irford would be kind of like when Canelo
tried to go up, and then it was kind of like--
- And he thought be of all, yeah, yeah.
- I could see that sort of being the Okam.
It's not his-- - Yeah, could be,
but Canelo, it's like later in his career, you know.
But it's like, there's, it'll be a genre.
- But also you have like the disadvantage of it's actually MMA
versus Xboxing. - Yeah.
- But like, yeah, the guy is one of the most exciting guys
the watch has, is a great representative too.
When he was on your show, dude.
- Oh, he's amazing. - Oh my God, dude.
It's like, could you have said more right things?
- Yeah.
- It was a bit better to just like not talk about any of it
publicly, and just like keep your relationship shit like private,
you would think-- - I think most of your life
you should keep. - Yeah.
- I think social media in general,
and not just for famous people, just in general,
is way worse for people than it is good,
especially Instagram. - Yeah.
- I think many a person has ruined their life on Twitter.
Many a person has said things on Twitter
that's tanked their career, ruined their life.
You know, it's just the motivation to get attention
for your words and your images is very toxic.
It's very dangerous, and you're playing with explosives.
It's just not smart.
It's just not a good thing to engage in.
I am much happier when I rarely am on social media.
And so I like dip my toes in, see what everybody's mad about,
and then I get the fuck out and move on with my day.
And I never try to portray myself in any way
other than who I actually am.
I don't, I'm not interested in like some fucking, you know,
some video montage with fucking music and inspirational quotes.
If somebody else makes that, that's fine.
I'm not involved, but I'm not putting anything like that
up and checking the likes, get the fuck out of here.
That's bad for you.
I think it's bad for your, the good and the bad,
the negatives that people hating on you is bad for you.
Like, oh, that's not me at all.
Hey, why are you saying that?
And then the good's not good for you either.
'Cause you start believing your own bullshit
and think your shit doesn't smell, it's crazy.
It's bad for you.
It's the opposite of mindfulness.
It's the opposite of being in the moment.
It's the opposite of that.
'Cause you're like living for other people's attention
that you don't even know, you don't even know these people.
And you're allowing them to comment on like your wife
and your family, you're holding her hand
and you're renewing vows, you're on your knee,
presenting her a ring in a video.
What the fuck are you doing?
Like, why would you do that?
That's a private thing.
If it's real love, you've been seeing the two of you.
And if it's like, if you're really working,
work hard in silence, what is this?
What are you doing?
Like, what is all this about?
But it's just for likes.
Everybody is addicted to these likes.
I wanna see the numbers.
Only 6,000 likes is crazy.
I bared my soul for you.
I just think it's really bad for people.
And also, it's like, most people don't know what fame really is.
They think they do.
And then they get it.
And then they think they can manage it.
And then the fucking psychology behind it.
The spinning that goes on in your mind,
when you're trying to go to bed
and you're worried about all the mean things
people are saying about you, it's like, it's just bad.
It's just not good.
What's the strategy now for you to burn your phone
or like, how do you do just like,
divorce yourself from yourself?
I just don't read it.
I don't read anything.
And I don't--
You did a burner phone for a while.
Yeah.
Well--
Or is this fucking annoying as it was?
I do have a burner phone.
Well, I don't have a burner phone.
I have a phone that I give to people that are just annoying
or that I don't really want to.
Like, I leave it at home and never check it.
So there's certain business stuff.
And I don't want business stuff to be entering into my life
all the time.
So I wanna-- I have like, regimented times
where I check things and respond to people.
But I think my next phone number, which I'm changing soon,
is going to be no social media at all.
And then my other phone number.
I'm just gonna do that with it.
I'm just gonna do my social media posts,
all the stuff that I have to do.
Like, hey, I got a show coming up or hey,
this guy was great.
It's podcast happening.
Posting ghost is what I do.
Post then get out of there.
But I'm not gonna have any social media on my new phone.
I just generally think it's bad for you.
And it gets in the way of--
It's an abuse of precious resources.
That's what I think.
- So would you have podcasts and stuff on it?
Or how do you entertain yourself with actual social media?
- Yeah.
- Or like, I'll entertain myself with YouTube.
- It's hard to not have this shit infiltrate
when you have a taste of it.
And it's like, before you know it,
you're sitting on the toilet looking
at social media or something.
- Yeah, that's another nice thing that I like to do
is not look at my phone when I'm on the toilet.
Just go to the toilet and just leave it there.
I've been leaving my phone on Do Not Disturb, too,
which is also a nice thing.
I like doing that.
Put it on Do Not Disturb and check it occasionally.
Every now and then, check it.
And you know, you could set up Do Not Disturb
or certain people can get through.
Like, my wife can get through.
My kids can get through.
Best friends can get through.
But it's just like, I think that for the most part,
what you're doing is you're using very valuable resources
on things that aren't valuable at all.
- Yeah, it's part of the reason I work best late at night
as much as I would love to have the perfect circadian rhythm
and go to bed at the perfect time and align it
with the sun going down, but it's like,
the only time my phone and all the stuff
is not blowing up, it's in the middle of the night
and I can just focus and not have to think about stuff
blasting me.
- Me, too.
My best writing was always late at night
when everyone's asleep.
- No.
- And that's also, there's something about late at night
where the world seems a little bit more crazy
than I think my mind is a little more tuned to danger
and chaos and just like, it seems like more heightened
'cause it's dark out.
You know, it's dark out and everyone's asleep
and like, what is the world really made out of?
Like, that's where I do my best thinking.
- It's funny 'cause when I look out, I just see like,
calm, there's no traffic.
And I'm just like, this is nice.
- That too, but night is when I worry about war.
That's when I worry about--
- Oh, I do, yeah.
- That's, I know, it's not good.
Sometimes I let it get in my head.
That's when I get my most anxiety about the future
of the world is like, night, something about that.
Do you still smoke weed?
- Fair bit or?
- Allegedly.
- Yeah, it's great for writing.
- Oh, that's not good for paranoia.
(laughing)
That's what I was saying.
- Yeah, well, it makes you hyper sensitive to danger.
- Yeah.
- It's too, and yeah.
But it's really great for creativity.
For creativity, there's nothing like it.
And for comedy, it's a steroid.
It's like the best, like, it is the best performance
enhancing drug ever created for writing comedy.
- Oh really?
- Yeah, there's nothing like it.
Especially addibles, like, you have thoughts that,
like, okay, I don't know if I would ever have that thought
without weed.
Like, that thought is weed wrote that joke.
I barely had anything to do with that.
- What's the ideal edible dish?
- Depends on your tolerance.
Talk to zero tolerance.
- Zero tolerance.
- Oh, 10, 10 milligrams might fuck you up though.
Maybe five, maybe five is good.
You know, that's like in the places where it's legal.
Like, if you go to New York or LA,
they, I think LA has a 10 milligram threshold.
I think you can only get 10, that's the highest you can get.
Tens a lot for someone who doesn't do it.
But, you know, Joey Diaz will pop like a 250,
250, he'll pop 250, he'll pop 250's.
He's a fucking freak though.
Like his tolerance is like nothing I've ever seen in my life.
He used to dose people.
He would take like a 25 milligram edible
and he'd take the wrapper off
and put a 250 milligram edible in
and give it to his co-host.
- Oh my god.
- Oh my god.
It's like, I think it's funny, but like, I'm not yet.
(laughing)
- It's only funny 'cause it's Joey.
It was anybody that he didn't love.
He'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
But when Joey does it, he's just like, oh my god.
- So you just think you're dying
and like unreasonably aware of him?
- Well, he just, no, and he's over there laughing.
(laughing)
- And you're sitting there spiraling,
no way you thought you out.
- Yeah, he just always says, I wanna see the devil.
He goes, fuck this mic with those things.
I wanna see the devil.
He likes seeing the, he likes getting freaked out.
He likes it, but I mean, for creativity,
I think it has a place.
- That's the comedian juice right there.
- Yeah, I think, you know, not for everybody.
Some people don't like it at all, you know.
I know some really great comics that are stone cold sober.
And for them, it's just, they just like to sit and think.
But a lot of the best ones that I know,
they have switched over to either a flip phone
or a phone with nothing on it.
No social media at all.
I think eventually you realize like,
that time you're spending,
we're just scrolling mindlessly through things.
It's such precious resources, you only have so much time
in a day and you're spending time
just looking at nonsense.
But also, the other side of it is,
you do wanna have your finger on the pulse of society.
You wanna kinda know what's going on in the world.
- Yeah, if you're a comedian,
how do you even like talk about pop culture
and stuff that's trending or whatever?
- Well, interestingly enough,
I get sent enough things.
- Oh, it's like consolidating for you.
- Yeah, yeah.
I get sent enough things by my friends that are fucked up
that I don't have to go looking.
So I go, Jesus, is that real?
And then I'll maybe do a search and find out
that it is real and then read about it
and like go, what?
But that I think is probably valuable
'cause it's keeping you informed.
It's the endless, mindless scrolling
that I think is the most detrimental.
And the one that robs you of the most time,
'cause you know, you could be sitting down at the kitchen table
and all of a sudden you have this plan for the day,
you're gonna get going, you're drinking a cup of coffee
and then you know, 45 minutes has gone.
- Yeah.
- 45, you get a brutal fucking workout in 45 minutes,
but you didn't do anything.
- There's nothing more guilty feeling
than having wasted like your six to eight
really short mental hours.
Any part of that on something that don't.
- I feel so bad when I do it.
When I have done it in the past,
I just feel like, how do I do it again?
- Yep.
- How did I let it get me?
- Yeah, it's like you feel like an idiot
or like a drugie or something, it's like--
- But you are.
- You're a low level drugie, yeah.
It's a low drug.
It's not even a good one.
It's not even like, I feel great.
This is amazing.
It doesn't even do that to you.
Sean, Sugar Sean O'Malley had a great quote.
He said, "Even when I'm just regular scrolling,
even if it has nothing to do with me,
he goes, I get a low level anxiety."
And I'm like, yeah, me too, like it's weird.
And I think that low level anxiety
is like a little bit of as you know,
you're wasting your time, you know?
- Yeah, for sure.
- When he fought Marab the second time,
he got totally off social media for like months and months.
- Oh, probably the best strategy.
- Yeah, it still didn't help, you know?
- Yeah.
I mean, LHC put in like, did what he thought would work though.
- Did his best.
- There's a lot of people that come to the pressure
at the max level and check the, you know,
what people were saying about them, who was, you know,
when, you know, that's the worst way.
- Watching your training, footage you posted,
seeing if people like it.
- Yeah, it's kind of about whatever.
- Yeah.
- I mean, some people thrive on it, they like haters.
- Bodybuilding is the worst for it too.
I'm sure it's just as bad in MMA,
but it's like your entire physique
is like your social media brand.
So it's like you post your physique
and then the feedback you get,
you kind of have to look at, I guess,
because it's like what you compete with too.
So you're literally taking judge feedback
that's subjective and taking what they're telling you
is wrong with your body to fix,
and then you're just bombarded by people
in the comments section are like you lost
because of this, you're lazy, how'd you not get in shape?
And it's like even down to the lighting on stage
can make you look much worse than you actually are.
- A bit you showed up with soggy glutes, bitch.
- And it's like, I'm fucking shredded.
Like what are you talking about?
- S soggy glutes is hilarious.
- Yeah, and it's like, back in the '90s,
I don't know what it was, but it was like,
some of the lighting too was almost so bad
that it gave this granular, sharp, kind of like pixelated,
but like etchy look to the physics
and it would look like they were more cut and defined
and just better downloading overall.
And some of these shows, they're so washed out
with the high resolution and like the perfect,
I wanna say perfect, it's like almost overexposed lighting
to show what's going on in the stage.
That they look watery and fat even when they're like,
and I say watery and fat, like the perception
of the fitness industry, it's like proportional
to what you're expected to look like.
But it's like, they could be shredded out of their mind
and like haven't worked so hard to show up in shape
and then just get like decimated online
from some fucking keyboard warrior who's like,
"Oh, you're back, it's like too watery bro."
Go back to the fucking elliptical, you know?
(laughing)
- Well, it's also like bodybuilding is the sport of ego, right?
Because it's only about what you look like.
- That's crazy. - That's the whole thing.
It's not about how fast you are.
Like, look, gable.
It's like, it's not shredded.
You know, but he's ultimate freak.
You know, like BJ Penn and his prime,
'cause there's a lot of guys who are,
they were never shredded.
They were always just smooth and fuck people up.
David Benavitas, another one, like elite world class box
or light heavyweight champion.
A little muffin top, did you see this last fight?
Benavitas fought Anthony Yard.
- Okay, perfect contrast, just happened last weekend.
- Oh, I miss that one, yeah.
- Yard is fucking shredded, he is an adonis.
He is a Greek god.
He is literally like, you look at him,
there's no way if you saw the two of them,
you would say that guy on the left that has no abs
and his smooth is gonna fucking destroy
the guy on the right.
Nobody would believe it.
See if you can find, yeah, the two of them together.
There's no way, there's no way.
David Benavitas is one of the scariest guys alive
because he's relentless, he's so fucking skillful,
he's so fast, his brutal combinations,
but he's so unimpressive physically looking at him.
And Yard looks like you would expect in a movie,
like the perfect scary opponent.
Like there's Benavitas, like look at him.
I mean, he looks like an athlete, right?
Looks in shape.
But now, what do you see Yard?
- I just first, sorry.
- Look at Yard.
- Oh shit.
- Shredded, fucking shredded and brutal power too,
but it just couldn't fuck with Benavitas.
See, go way deep into the fight before he stops him.
Yeah, I mean, Benavitas was just putting it on him,
just standing right in front.
And Yard, the thing about having that much musculature,
there's just a reality of the oxygen.
Just beat the shit out of him, man.
And Yard's really good, man.
He's a really good boxer, but Benavitas,
like look at the difference in the physique, man.
His physique is perfect.
- Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a limitation for some people
where you're just like sapping up
so much oxygen, carrying capacity to supply the tissue.
But it's also, there's a skill gap.
I mean, Benavitas is super fucking skillful.
And he's, this is the guy that people say
Canal has been avoiding, and he kind of probably has.
Because Benavitas is the up and coming Mexican champion
that everybody loves.
And Canelo is, you know, the king,
and everybody was like, this is the big fight at 168.
And so Benavitas had to go up to 175 to get big fights.
Because Canal wouldn't fight him at 168.
- Canelo is, is he just kind of like picking and choosing?
- Yes, look at this, bro.
Come on, man, this fucking guy is good.
He's so good.
- How was it?
- And he's right, he's young, man.
- I think Benavitas is, is he 28?
How old has David Benavitas?
He's young.
- Okay.
- Young and elite and going through his prime right now.
Hold is a, 28, yeah.
- I go.
- Yeah, he's prime.
- You know, he's even more unassuming
is like half the NHL players that play hockey.
- Oh really?
- Oh dude.
Like, have you ever seen somebody look more like a frat bro
who does not play sports NHL players?
- Well, those guys have crazy cardio.
- Yeah, that's a race.
- But you would never think.
Like, I used to bounce downtown Vancouver
and we'd have the teams come by that would play the Kinox
and they would come party at the Champaign lounge
and the club that I was bouncing at.
And he'd be like, this guy is like, you know,
a professional athlete.
It would be the whole team and half of them looked like,
you know, some dude that's like, you'd do like a fucking
keg stand with it, like, you know, a party.
And that's like the max of his athletic capacity
is being like held up to choke some beers or something.
- Well, I bet those guys drink a lot.
- Oh, Versa.
- Yeah.
- Out of all the athletes that drink,
it's got to be hockey players at the top of the heat, right?
- Yeah, and they're, they're fucking super athletic
or good endurance.
You know, it's like just so unassuming, physique-wise.
It's like.
- It's all legs.
- Yeah.
- It's got to be all legs.
I bet they're shredded from the waist down.
- Yeah, it's crazy seeing like the sport-specific
translation in actual like physical, like,
physiology that's conducive to your sport.
You see a sprinter and it's like,
you know he's a fucking 100 meter sprinter.
And then you see, you know, another guy
and it's like, you might not even think he plays sports.
- You know, I thought that when I went
to the professional soccer team here in town,
Austin FC, these guys have these fucking quarter horse legs.
And then like, real thin upper bodies.
Like, they don't use their arms.
They've been literally, unless you're a goalie,
you don't use them. - Yeah, it's mind-blowing.
- Yeah, so they have like tiny little upper bodies,
massive fucking legs.
And insane cardio, 'cause they're constantly sprinting.
They sprint for 90 minutes.
I mean, they're just running around sprinting.
- There's a couple outliers that do,
look up Adam Treyori, I think it is.
I might be totally butchering as well.
- But Ronaldo. - Ronaldo.
- Ronaldo is pretty jacked up.
- He's jacked.
- He's like the hyper-optimizer too.
- He really is.
I mean, I remember there was a thing
where they tried to give him a Coca-Cola
and he finally took it a size of, no, Agua.
- Yeah, and Coca-Cola lost like a billion dollars in stock.
Whoa, look at that guy.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, that guy's a freak.
- Yeah, that guy.
- Well, there's always gonna be freaks out there.
- Yeah.
But it's crazy to see a guy like that Excel so well too,
a sport that you would think he'd kind of be
like barely talking along.
- Well, that's probably 'cause he's been doing it
his whole life, you know, and he has unbelievable genetics.
- Yeah.
- Genetics are a nutty thing, man.
You cannot run genetics.
But they don't always help.
Like look at Yard, Yard has perfect genetics, right?
- Yeah.
- And David is, he would look at him and he'd go,
"Oh, that's not the best genetics."
Like if he was a bodybuilder,
you'd like get the fuck out of here.
- Yeah, it's crazy too, 'cause sometimes you might just have
like nice looking around muscle bellies,
but you don't actually have like mitochondrial density
to support athletic endeavor.
So you're kind of just like a show thing.
You're just like our cause medically pleasing athlete,
but not actually able to translate it into anything.
- Yeah, that's weird.
I've always thought that was weird.
I always thought that was weird and striking
because there's a lot of guys that have just built
like fucking brick shit houses.
And then you see him hit the bag and be like,
it's just nuts, like you have zero power.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, and it's like you would think objectively
more muscle equals, but sometimes they're like
weakest shit even in lifts.
It's just like the development, the hypertrophy they get
from it is just disproportionately better.
- That's weird.
Can that be optimized though?
Like if they have like unbelievable looking physiques,
is it just that they're not doing as much
because they don't need to to look great?
- I think there's definitely specific training for purposes
that would be conducive to sport
that maybe some might be neglecting for sure
and the ways to optimize for like,
like for example, you don't do hypertrophy work
for bodybuilding because it's not conducive
really to what you're trying to get.
And I think some people, they want the best of both worlds
and they want to like look the part and also perform.
So they might be slapping bandwidth that could be allocated
towards more optimal things that don't make them,
you know, as cosmatically pleasing.
- Yeah.
- There's definitely things you can do
from a support standpoint when it comes to,
you know, nutrition, supplementation, et cetera,
but like you are ultimately going to be capped
to some extent by genetic coding
when it comes to like density of certain receptors
and like you can upregulate it to whatever capacity you can,
but like you can only push it so far
before you've kind of, you know, chapped out.
- It's interesting because like the really bulky guys,
they just never have the same fluidity
that the guys that are built like Benavitas have
or that the punches flow in these effortless combinations,
perfect technique.
The really jack guys that look like they're destroyers.
- Flexibility is so much more limited to when you're like that though.
- Oh yeah.
- Unless you really work on it.
- Yeah, really work on it.
- Yeah, and you have to have a intentful approach
to making sure you can maintain, you know, the flexibility
that might otherwise just be innate to somebody
who doesn't have to deal with a giant deltoid
that like, right, right, right, right.
You know, Jocco, you know, Jocco, you know,
I've hunted with him before and Jocco,
like a correct archery release.
Correct archery release is,
you're supposed to get a surprise shot.
So as a shot breaks, your arm kind of goes back like this.
Jocco is so jacked and he has such limited motion
that his archery release is like this.
Like it doesn't, but he's doing it correctly.
But it doesn't move the same way.
It's all just Jocco smash.
You know, his body is designed to choke the shit out of you.
Like that's all it's for.
His body is designed to get a hold of you,
take it to the ground, snap your fucking arm in half.
That's what it's for.
It's just force and strength and, you know,
and it's like, it's funny.
I'm like, does your arm not move that way?
He's like, no, doesn't go back.
I'm like, that's funny.
Cause I'm watching him watching his archery release.
It's perfect.
But there's, you know, you watch like a,
like a Levi Morgan, a world champion pro archer.
Like as the shot breaks, their arm just goes back.
Like naturally, just like flows.
His just goes, just moves a little bit.
When I was at my peak of bodybuilding size,
I was in the middle of a job as a lifeguard
in teaching swimming lessons to kids.
And part of the teaching swimming lessons
would involve showing how to do the different strokes
of, you know, back crawl, front crawl, breaststroke, all the different things.
And when you're like a 265 pound bodybuilder,
it gets pretty difficult because not only do you just sink harder
because you're, you know, mostly muscle,
but also like just even trying to get a straight arm past your head.
It's impossible.
So I actually had to stop teaching swimming.
[laughs]
Your ears, your fucking shoulder just slamming into your ears.
Look at what it looks like you couldn't even do
what you're trying to teach like a fucking 60 year old or something like.
Very few guys work on mobility, a great example of someone who does
is Armon Sarukin.
Armon Sarukin who just wanted to be Dan Hooker two weeks ago or a week ago.
His mobility training is fucking super impressive.
Like, he is jacked.
Have you seen Armon?
Yeah, he's pretty shredded.
He's a guy that like doesn't pass the smell test.
There's a way to improve mobility by the way.
It's just a lot of bodybuilders like do not care.
Right.
And like there is some anatomical limitations ultimately
if there is muscles literally in the way.
But you just want to put it out there like,
"I'm sure I could have figured it out if I cared at the time."
Perhaps, but at 265 with your frame.
Oh yeah, I would have been limited by like the actual anatomy.
But like, I had no care for optimizing mobility or anything.
I was just like, "What's my max bench?"
Show photo of Derek when he was jacked.
When he was super jacked.
There's some photos of him out there that are just...
You were preposterous.
Yeah, yeah.
Do you miss those days?
You ever look at that physique?
God damn, I look pretty fucking good.
No, I mean, I feel like I've come to peace a while ago
with not looking like that anymore.
It's a lot of upkeep, dude, until I...
Yeah, look at you then.
Is that your height?
I think you were a little bigger than that at one point.
Yeah, I think this is like a profile picture.
So, yeah, that was a more recent one.
It's probably like how I lost 75 pounds in the bottom left
is probably, yeah, right there, the fat dash.
It may be one of those.
That shot probably is one of the biggest.
Bro, you got big at one point in time.
Yeah.
Was that how you were before you started lifting?
Oh.
Look at that old-school blackberry half.
So that's the dates that just by the phone.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it was...
I was like trying to be a competitive bodybuilder
and I just kind of realized that I could look good for,
you know, like fitness industry, I guess,
for kind of looking jacked for Instagram or whatever
and like doing okay at like a regional level
for, you know, a lower tier level of physics
but like bodybuilding to take us to that next level.
It was just like a level of stress I wouldn't be able to
one, be willing to sustain.
And then two, it just wouldn't have been worth it
'cause it was like, I tried pushing drugs and like,
I just wasn't responding to a level I knew I needed to
to continue and justify using that much.
Is it a genetic thing?
Yeah, so it's like your energy and receptor content
is a largely predetermined, there are some things
you can do similar's like mitochondrial density
and things of that nature that you can do to upregulate
and improve it and certain supplements you can use
but ultimately your number of muscle fibers
are going to be limited.
Like there's gonna be people who are just at baseline,
you know, chihuahua looking humans that if you put them on gear,
they just become bigger chihuahua humans essentially
but like they're never gonna be jammed.
Yeah, they're never gonna get, you know,
Mr. Olympia caliber and there's a certain like muscle belly
that's more conducive to looking bigger
and also being able to support certain body weights
is even like a health thing too.
It's not just how well do you respond to drugs?
It's also how long can you take them without dying, you know?
So it's like some of the most highest performing
and like excelling athletes or individuals
who can tolerate the stuff and not go, you know, crazy
from the, some people mentally cannot handle
these level of androgens and they, you know,
it wrecks their sleep, it wrecks their blood work, it wrecks,
they get really early cardiovascular disease.
Psychologically too, they go crazy.
Yeah, yeah, I've seen deaths in, you know, late 20s, mid 30s
and some of them.
There was a guy that was Vtor Belford's trainer
when Vtor first entered into the UFC.
So Vtor when he first fought in the UFC weighed 200 pounds
in his UFC debut when he fought a traitelligment
that was UFC 12.
And he was like a super athletic, fast, lethal black belt
with vicious hands.
And then when he fought Randy Cotori, he was 240.
And his neck started at the top of his head.
It was, it just looked like a little giant fucking trap.
Yeah, it was just ridiculous.
He was just ridiculous.
And the guy who was working out with him,
this guy Curtis, wound up dying very young.
And we used to call him Garden Hoses
'cause his guy's veins were, he was so vascular,
it was fucking ridiculous.
We worked out next time like bro,
you got Garden Hoses for veins.
So he was your fucking insane.
He was just insane and he was so big.
Like so big, 300 plus, 510, 300 plus pounds.
Just fucking jacked.
He was so big and, you know, he had Vtor convinced
that that was the way to go.
Just fucking hit the gas full speed.
Yeah, I mean, at his peak, he was one of the sausage dudes.
Right, at least, you know, he was like the perfect hybrid
of athleticism meets like crazy looking physique,
I would say at least at the time for what I can recall.
Well, the TRT, Vtor was, Vtor,
so Vtor on the year when he was younger
and then no gear for a while, low period.
And then when they had TRT in the UFC,
where they allowed it when it was legal,
which was a crazy few years.
That the people called the TRT Vtor years,
where Vtor was just dominating everybody.
Yeah, it was terrifying.
Him and over him are like poster kids.
Over him was the, that is the poster child.
So you can find a video of Armand Saurukian's
mobility workouts because he does really interesting stuff.
Yeah, like stuff I've never seen UFC athletes do,
but I would think would be really conducive,
especially to like scrambles and weird grappling positions
where you want to have strength and like odd positions
of your body where you're stretched out.
And there's one on the side just showing.
Oh, yeah, you can't imagine.
So this kind of stuff, like this kind of stuff.
Yeah, like look at this.
Like look at all these things.
So he's doing these kind of things all the time,
just to maintain that kind of flexibility
along with all that mass and all that power that he has.
Like getting into some of those awkward positions,
like you've got to be able to get into weird spots
comfortably.
And yeah, this is, look at that.
Like that's crazy.
That's crazy rotation back.
Yeah, he's got amazing mobility,
but I do have to say he also has back problems.
And it might be one of the reasons why he does this.
I mean, yeah, when you go exorcism on the fucking
monster machine, I can imagine he frying that with something.
I don't think that's what caused it.
Honestly, I think it's probably grappling.
Like he's a really elite grappler.
There's a video of him grappling with Homsok.
And he keeps up with Homsok.
And there are two weight classes separated.
And Homsok is fucking fantastic.
And you know, they're scrambling.
And it's like a very competitive grappling session.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, and circling back to some like,
you know, the sausage and like the garden hose guy.
I do think it's good that the education is out there
though for people to be able to know how to not die
from this stuff now.
Because it's, whoa, that's Curtis.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's him.
It's back then it would just be like,
go to that photo again and the upper left,
that upper left photo, that's crazy.
God was so vascular.
Like look at his bicep.
Fucking bananas, right?
Look at that right bicep and his chest.
He's got fucking garden hoses on his chest.
Yeah, full chocolate, but chocolate face, too.
He had chocolate face.
Or Milano 10 out the wazoo.
Well, you know the guys that do it now,
where they keep their face white
'cause they don't want to be called out
for having a black face.
Have you seen that?
Yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, it is funny.
Have you seen the, I think we looked at the Milano 10.
And people on the first peptide?
Yeah, Milano 10, too, is a one of the,
I don't know if it's an obscure one,
but I guess maybe proportionals
to some of the more widespread ones now it is,
but it's like a Milano Cortan receptor agonist
and actually an analog of it is used for women
for a hypoactive like low sexual drive.
So it actually enhances sexual drive, too.
So there's like a component,
there's a version of the drug that doesn't tan you
that just like makes you hornear.
That way men are prescribed called Veilece.
And then men, there's no drug approved,
but you could theoretically take it,
but it gives you boners and also makes you tan.
If you take the Milano 10, too, yeah.
Yeah, so it's like for bodybuilders
and also suppresses appetite as well.
Whoa, it really does that.
That's, well, that's a weird,
the lighting on that one of those.
That is weird, Chris.
It's like from the day, let's see,
that's right on the daily mail that seems like
they might have.
No, no, this is actually possible.
I like how it says that, too.
Yeah, you can literally manually become black
with this drug.
Didn't some lady take that?
She was on like one of them Sally Jessie Raphael shows.
Yeah, and she claims she was black.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And she's like, look at me.
What are you going to tell me I'm not?
Yeah.
She started talking like, oh, God, yeah.
How wild.
Yeah.
What if it did it to your hair, too?
It does.
'Cause it's all pigment related.
So it does make your hair blacker as well.
It makes your facial hair darker.
What is it, is there something like that for guys
that have gray hair?
Yeah, like it does it to your hair.
Is this the light?
Yeah, there's light.
Look at it boobs, too.
Oh, my God, that lady might be insane.
Like, I'm guessing, yes.
And it's like, you almost wouldn't even think it's real
if you weren't told by somebody that you actually
can go that far.
Like it's literally you pick your dose
and the exposure to the sun will dictate
via the dosage, like how dark you get.
And you can go all the way.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Like full chocolate body.
Is there any side effects?
Yeah, you get really nauseous if you overdo it.
It's actually a really potent appetite suppressor.
So it's like one of the, back in the day,
you could find my before and after.
Type in Melano 10, two more plates more dates.
You'll see my before and after.
Last time I used it.
And did you use it for bodybuilding?
To do it.
Yeah.
Because I'm pale of shit.
So for me, the thought of having a tan was pretty awesome.
There's me with my CPAP mask on.
If you want to take you with a CPAP mask on.
I was just like, I look kind of fucking traded.
I'll take a pick.
That's funny.
If you scroll down, you'll see my back before and after.
I have to keep going there right there.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And that's like weeks apart.
It does tan you.
Yeah.
Dude, you had fucking giant lats, man.
That's nuts.
Yeah.
You could jump off a fucking cliff and fly like a squirrel.
Yeah.
What a weird pose.
I used to stand there.
Yeah.
Well, bodybuilding is weird period.
Yeah.
It is odd.
It's just like the whole idea is not the function.
It's not performance.
It's just looking giant.
Yeah.
It's like some of the exercises don't even translate the way you think they would to.
Like you do a, you get really good at the bench press.
And then you do something else that you think is like pushing related or like forced
production, it's like, oh, I'm weakest shit here for some reason.
Even though you thought it would translate.
But it's not like a, it's almost training a neuronal patterns to more than even just
like the muscle.
And you get hypertrophy.
But you're also kind of just like training yourself to get really good at specific movements
in a way that has like no application to a lot of sports typically.
Just to look checked.
There are more like functional choices, obviously.
But like the ones most conducive to bodybuilding and not getting injured or oftentimes like, you
know, the typical kind of like beach body style things, but there are, there are more intelligent
choices for sure.
It's not all of that.
But that's the thing, though, it's like the, the, the guys who lift the heaviest and
do it.
That's, that's a very odd thing.
Like, and then they wind up getting like Ronnie Coleman when I'm really getting fucked
up from Ronnie was like famously one of the heaviest lifters as a bodybuilder.
And for what is worth, I'm absolutely not like above the style of training.
Like this is like what I still kind of do to be honest.
So it's like I do, you know, I'm still fan of bodybuilding.
I don't want to like speak poorly on it or anything.
And we oversee some of the best bodybuilders on the planet right now as well and make sure
they can do it as safely as possible because it's still a dangerous sport.
And, you know, you got to take modern knowledge to not screw yourself up nowadays.
What do you ever tell a guy like you just don't have the genetics to ever do this at
a professional level.
Do you have ever do have to have that conversation with people like you're, you're pushing the
gear so hard and it's not responding.
Like if I had a friend, I guess maybe similar to your like heart to heart, you had with
a job about MMA at the time when it was like not really worth continuing to expose danger
wise.
Yeah, it's, you know, often a lot of these kind of situations happen in bodybuilding where
it's like you have a close friend who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs and you know
it's just like killing him and you know that the like you're not going to make it to the
Olympia.
So really like what are we doing this for?
Yeah.
You have better opportunities elsewhere.
Like I've had that conversation a couple times, but in general, it's kind of like you kind
of have to have the self awareness to know.
And I think fortunately that's part of where the education comes in is back in the day
you wouldn't know that you had the bad genetics.
You just think everyone's taking more shit than you because you wouldn't really, you thought
there was a secret that you didn't know.
There was some special drug that they source from Europe that you're not getting.
Right.
You know, they have the secret, you know, fill in the blank thing that the guru at the
Olympia level who's coaching all the top bodybuilders has and you just need to get to the next
level and get your IFB pro card and then maybe they'll get to work with that guru and
then he'll give me access to that drug and then I can take it to the next level.
And then before you know it a lot of these guys are still grinding for really like low
level shows or like to place poorly even at like the entry level of professional and their
health is a wreck and they're not really going to make it to where they think maybe they're
on the path to and so I don't know.
I think the more, you know, transparent look into it has made a lot of people more self-aware
to check themselves and also to know if they're even, you have to respond well from a health
standpoint too is not just how good do I look in the mirror.
If you have wrecked blood work or you have a abnormal anatomical structure of your heart
before you start subjecting yourself to hormones, these are things that are all checkable
now proactively and you could tell beforehand if you're a good candidate not just from a
muscular response standpoint but also from a health tolerance standpoint.
I wonder what if any, what factor genetic engineering is going to play in the bodybuilding.
Myostatin inhibition, there is gene therapies that are being utilized now.
They're just not that efficacious.
Is myostatin inhibitors, are they, are people using them now?
Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to integrate them in order to offset muscle catapult, catapultism
induced via GLP1 agonist like semi-glutes, interesting.
Yeah.
So it's kind of a unique time because not only do we have really aggressive fat loss agents
that actually work now that are not simply stimming your brain to, you know, to high
hell, which a lot of the previous drugs worked like that.
Now it's like we have these effective things but they make you eat so little that we,
now the next thing is there's all this attention on how to lose healthy weight and not, you
know, a bunch of muscle weight because there's more education around the importance of losing,
you know, fat and not muscle, which is metabolically active tissue, health supporting, whereas,
if you just end up skinny fat, you might be no better off than when you started depending
on the person.
So, so some of the more refined currently being developed drugs are like these fat loss
appetite suppressing agents with concurrent like thermogenic properties for energy expenditure
and then muscle preservation mechanisms built in that inhibit myostatin or act through
other pathways to try and keep the muscle on you.
Yeah, bring them from ways to where I was explaining that they're using some people
rather are using GLP ones in conjunction with IGF and they're combining a bunch of different
things to offset the bone density and muscle loss and then also encouraging weight lifting
while they're doing it because a lot of people are just taking them and then just shriveling
because look, if you starve yourself, you will lose weight but you're going to lose bone
density, you're going to lose tissue, you're going to lose everything.
Yeah, that's like one of the most important components of the usage of them is especially
with you know, women who might be otherwise not even integrating it into their regular
life, they just end up eating less of what is already a nutrient poor or protein poor diet
and aren't strength training as much as I guess proportionally to man, it's becoming
more prevalent among women obviously, which is great.
But like the bone loss and muscle loss is significant among anybody who is depriving themselves
of nutrients like that.
And art tissue too.
Yeah, I mean everything, you know, you're basically self-inducing malnutrition.
I just, can you just diet?
I mean, it's really a discipline thing with not with people that are severely obese.
Like I'm in favor of GLP ones for people, like if you're 500 pound, which bite, but I do
have to say, jelly roll did it on the notch, he did it on the notch, he did not take
GLP ones.
He's not, he's not taking nothing man, that guy is just working out every day and he just
cut all the bullshit out of his life.
He got rid of his phone, he didn't have a phone for, he has one now, but he didn't have
a phone for the fucking longest time.
Even his fucking, his, when you text him, his, you know, the little image that shows up
and you go, it's a phone with a fucking red line through it.
Yeah.
What does that mean?
Like, I mean, it was just non-interested in phones, man.
He decided not to have a phone for a long time because he realized it was negative for
his mental health and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight, but he did it naturally.
He really did.
He did it just through hard work and discipline and just, you know, if you've seen the
images of him now, bro, there's a, him on stage with Alexander Volkanovsky and he doesn't
even wear the same guy.
He saw us 200 plus pounds.
Oh nice.
He looks fucking great.
I mean, it's amazing.
One of the things that's tough when it comes to like the assertation that it's more
a will power thing than anything, in many cases, I do think it is.
There are a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors and psychological tendencies to just be, you
know, it's easier to be lazy than not and just, you know, it's also the food addiction
because you have to eat.
But there are some people who just, if you ultimately have a genetically higher baseline
a perpetual level of appetite signaling, it's kind of hard to tell that person like, just
fucking, you know, wrench it out, bro, like you've got this and it's like, I know a lot
of people in the fitness industry.
It's incredible.
Yeah.
It's great.
It, he looks fucking great.
It's really amazing.
No, especially impressive for individuals who are that obese to make that big of a change.
It's like, it's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a weight.
Yeah.
And then it's momentum after that.
I watched an incredible video yesterday, one of the most motivational videos I've ever
seen.
I'll send it to you, Jamie.
It's this kid.
And this guy is, he's out of shape, he's, he's got high body fat and the video is him saying
that he wants to work out like David Goggins for a hundred days.
He doesn't work out at all.
And he goes from, I'll send it to you, Jamie.
He goes from being this guy who's like completely out of shape to, at the end of the video, he
does a fucking iron man.
And he found it.
Yeah.
So this is the guy.
So in the beginning, in the beginning, he's like kind of fat and like that's what he looks
like.
And you know, he's like motivated by Goggins.
So the first day, he runs, he gets up at 5.30 in the morning and he runs 13 miles the
first day.
I mean, he's never, he doesn't run at all.
He doesn't work out at all, he eats junk food and he's running, he's running past McDonald's
and shit.
He's all fat.
But he's doing an ultra, well, he does an ultra marathon, halfway into it.
And then by the end of it, he does an iron man.
And now he regularly runs 100 mile races.
Yeah.
He got down to 140 pounds, he's shredded now.
It's really, really impressive.
That's awesome.
Because it's just all disciplined.
Look at the difference.
145, 9% body fat.
He started out at 184, 27% body fat.
And look, he's all lean now and healthy and he's running 100 mile races now.
That's really amazing, because he just did it with sheer willpower and documented the
whole thing.
He's in agony.
His ankles all fucked up from running.
So he swims and he swims in the pool and then he decides to swim with weights on, he really
becomes obsessed.
Have you seen the guy who fasted for a year straight?
Yes.
That's an old story, right?
Yeah.
I think that's still the record for like longest period of not eating and just like adhering
to a diet.
And he got vitamin IVs and the guy who did that, what's interesting is he also lost skin.
So his skin shrank along with his body, which I thought was fascinating.
Yeah.
I mean, I would imagine that to some extent, there's some elasticity, depending on how long
you've been fat and also like, I don't know, maybe just the tissue itself, there's some
level of 300 to 2 days.
I'm sure your body's fiending for energy for many work and find it if there's some
weight.
I don't know.
But I think the interesting thing is he didn't come around, come out of it looking like
a lot of these people do where they have to get all their skin removed, you know, I mean,
I feel like there's gotta be loose skin to some extent.
To some extent.
To some extent.
I don't know.
There's, I don't know if there's a shirt.
But that was part of the narrative, his skin actually shrank along with his body because
he wasn't eating at all.
I want to see that.
Does that make sense?
I mean, I was trying to play along for a second, but now I'm like, if there's not a
neck, I don't know, I did.
Well, it was also, it's 1960, whatever it was.
Sounds like an interesting tale that might have passed for the grapevine.
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that though.
No.
That sounds crazy.
And then once you start eating again, how do you just keep the fucking floodgates from
yeah?
I mean, that's the interesting thing is some people psychologically it's easier to adhere
to something when they're full-bore and then like I know a lot of people who they'll
do commit to a competition because they know I'm accountable to step-on stage, I don't
look like shit when I'm on stage and they do it, they get a bunch of photos done, and
then after they go off the rails and they're like right back to where they started within
a month or two.
That happens to a lot of fighters, they get done with fighting and then they get really
fat.
It's really common.
It's really common because they also develop real eating disorders because you're cutting
weight all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, for some of them it's like you're basically like doing bodybuilder shit essentially.
Well, Patty Pimble, it's the best example of a current active fighter, so I guess he
gets so big.
Dude, his main face is like the best in the league probably.
So here it says, 300 days, from June 14th, 1965 through June 30th of 1966, he consumed only
vitamins, electrolytes, and unspecified amount of yeast, a source of essential amino acids
and zero calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water, all they occasionally added
milk and/or sugar to the beverages, especially during the final weeks of the fast.
Barbieri began his treatment in the hospital, but for most of the 382 days he lived at home.
Okay.
It says stool samples were not taken, but he reportedly went up to 48 days between stools.
Wow.
It sounds crazy, but it's like what's going to.
Yeah.
What will be coming out?
His starting weight was 456.
And the fast officially stopped July 1966, he reaches goal weight of 180 pounds.
Wow.
Yeah, it's nuts.
The next 10 days doctors placed him on a diet of salt and then sugar in preparation for
solid food.
The sum sources record the fast being 392 days instead of 382.
Wow.
Now, one of the things that's tough is it's like, even though maybe that case study exists
and there's people who just brute force will power their way through it, some of those
people otherwise might have genetically been able to tolerate the hunger signaling better
than somebody else who literally cannot focus on work or anything when they're that hungry.
And it almost sometimes doesn't even come down to the diet quality as much as somebody
might tell them, yeah, does it does to some extent, but it's certainly getting rid of the
shitty processed foods and getting on a good exercise regimen and doing all the things
to set yourself up in the best position will probably take care of most people, but there
are some individuals who just like at baseline, even on the inverse side.
I know a lot of people who simply aren't hungry and they have to force feed themselves
to gain muscle because they're just perpetually shredded and they have like the opposite problem
because they're hunger signaling is so low.
So it's like people look at them as an example in the fitness industry of like, all this
guy is the best discipline, he's like so shredded all the time.
And in reality, that guy's like, I hate food.
That's so weird.
There's one guy in particular, his name's David lead and he's like, I don't know, like
a teenage, well, he's like in his 20s now, but teenagers look up to him as kind of like
a fitness industry icon of aesthetics and he's perpetually had a shredded six pack.
He's pretty jacked.
He's tall.
He's handsome and he literally says on camera, I hate eating.
And he's like serious about it.
He's like, I can't stand having to eat meals.
What?
Yeah.
Oh my god.
He's just like to be a bodybuilder like he's just like, I don't know us.
What is he eating?
How is that possible?
It's good to high quality food.
That's a picture I can find.
Wow.
You can't tell.
It looks like he's got some fat there.
Yeah, it looks like he's got a bunch of extra skin there.
I mean, it's just like, how could he not?
Yeah.
Yeah.
How could he not find a picture of that other guy?
Who's the guy that they call the most shredded guy alive?
There's a helmet trouble.
Yes.
That guy.
That guy is crazy.
That guy.
That's ridiculous.
What is it?
It's a H-E-L-M-U-T.
It's been a while since I've looked at this guy.
And then S-T-R-E-B-L.
And uh, did I come up?
I'll make sure I did just come up that guy.
Helmet trouble.
Is this him?
Yeah.
Oh, Jesus.
Yeah.
That is insane.
Yeah.
I mean, that guy's physique is the man with 0% body fat.
That's hilarious.
Uh, that's not possible, folks.
You want to see even more shredded?
What is it?
Is that really possible?
That he's got more shredded?
Does someone more shredded that?
Yeah.
Type in a Andreas Munzer.
Oh, I've seen that guy.
But what is this guy's body fat?
I know.
It's not zero.
Zero's not possible.
What is that?
Six.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Five?
Five or six maybe?
No.
No.
That would be like stage.
Super stage, right?
Beyond most bodybuilders even at the best of the best in terms of conditioning.
So I don't know.
Maybe like six, seven.
It's kind of tough though, dude.
'Cause it's like some of these guys they have like, "Oh, Jesus Christ."
Go back to that picture.
That's nuts.
That's like aggressive filtering and sharpening to look at it.
Whatever.
Whatever it is, that's his real body.
That's insane.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's obviously like the best possible lighting for that effect.
There's distribution of fat and water that some people, it just looks more, uh, shredded
than another person who might otherwise store any excess fat on like their ass or like
their love handles or like whatever.
For a guy like that, not only is he diced, and like obviously he's just diced, but he
has like a dry look to the skin that enhances the kind of perceived leanness.
And it's like, uh, I forgot what it is.
It's not dick skin lean, I forgot what the dick skin lean is.
I forgot what the terminology is, but it's like, uh, it's like white guy something.
And it's just like if you're certain white physics are known to look more like you're
almost so pale and dry that it like enhances the perceived leanness, if that makes like any
sense whatsoever.
That's the weirdest thing about bodybuilding, right?
You have to be super dehydrated to look great and you're almost dead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you have to, you know, go chocolate body and stuff, but those guys, they, they're,
they're like, they black out sometimes backstage, don't they?
Yeah.
Whoa.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Which guy's that?
That's helmet.
That's him.
That's him.
I might be four percent.
I might be totally butchering his name, by the way.
So if I, I hope, bro, helmet, I hope I'm saying it right now.
I would never wear a shirt.
Why would I wear a shirt?
Yeah, you would not, he's 47, wow, in this article too, which is probably like five to
10 years old.
What does it look like now, wonder?
I wonder if he keeps it up because I mean, I would be so hungry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Unless you're on a GL1.
Oh, this is him.
This is him now.
Wow.
That's crazy.
No, that's not, that's gotta be it.
It's not.
It's not.
Oh, somebody else put it up there.
He has an IG.
It doesn't seem like.
That's one of the weird things when you're such an OG of the industry that you just have
like a weird residual fan pages, and you don't even know if it's the guy or not.
What's that old guy?
He was bald the old days.
He had like the hair on the side.
Scooby.
Was that his name?
I don't know, maybe.
White guy.
He was like a famous shredded guy back in the early days of bodybuilding.
He was not big.
He was thin, but he was like super fucking ripped.
God, I can't remember his name.
Was he?
Yeah, but he had like the hair on the side, like we're like old man bald, you know, what
didn't have a full shaved head.
Old man bald.
Yeah, he looked like, like when people went bald in the 50s, they didn't shave the side
of their head.
Yeah.
Fuck.
I, I'm sure if I saw it, I've been known here.
He was famous for teaching, you got him?
I feel like you have enough.
What's his name?
I don't know.
I don't know.
No, that's not him.
That's, it's older.
I bet you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
90s.
Yeah.
90s.
Oh God.
His name is at the tip of my tongue.
Oh, this is driving me crazy.
You were shredded?
Yeah.
He would teach people how to be shredded.
He had like this protocol for how to lose weight, but his whole thing was being shredded.
Wasn't that big.
I mean, he was, you know, fit, but not, not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked.
And he was Caucasian?
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
It's telling me Billy Blanks.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
White guy.
Fuck.
I was going to say, "Athlean Axe," but there's no way that, too.
No, no, no, no, no.
He's got great hair.
It's a long time ago.
No, "Athlean Axe" has got wonderful hair.
It's.
It's not right together.
Speaking of hair, there's that new thing that is the study out of UCLA, were they going
to be able to grow hair back?
Yeah.
And that wild?
I thought.
You don't believe it or not?
No, dude.
It's like every week, it's some new thing.
Like, rodent re-gru hair after being shaved bold, using UCLA, mediated broccoli extract.
Right?
And it's like, now every Reddit scientist is dumping fucking broccoli juice on their
head or whatever.
It's just like never really pans out, ultimately.
And it's pretty shocking.
I think I even mentioned this at one point that we have all these refined AI tools and
drugs and some of the most developed and refined, nearly side-effect free drugs for some
things that are pretty significant roots of disease, but like hair loss, like no one
has a clue how to fix it with the word "dixize".
Hair loss and dixize, two big ones.
We know to max out your genetic capacity for dixize, though.
Well, the nutty thing that I've been paying attention lately is so many guys that are
getting their legs broken to get taller.
I got an update on that guy, if you wanted to do it.
Oh, the Sasquatch guy?
Yeah.
How's he doing?
Well, I mean, he's walking, but it's like not perfect.
But it's been a few years, right?
Yeah, but he's also like the most extreme edge case example of, it's almost, if it was
unfair to you guys, a reference point, it's like this is the heaviest, tallest example.
Right.
So, it's like if anyone went out of town.
If he, when he started, he got to six six and he was not walking like a year later.
Yeah.
So, he is...
He said, let's see, I could send this to you if you wanted to put it up on the screen
where I could just show you here.
Yeah, just text to me.
What is he, is he okay?
I mean, he got sued by the company that did his surgery.
He got sued?
Yeah.
Why did he get sued?
He was talking about all like the mishaps that happened when he got, because it's kind
of like, there were good clinics and bad clinics in terms of quality.
And he kind of was, I guess, too forthcoming about like I did a podcast with him and they
didn't like it.
They're suing him.
Yeah.
Literally.
Well, they did sue him, yeah.
How can you sue someone for telling the truth about a procedure that didn't work out
so great?
I mean, great question.
That's what I said.
How did you win, maybe you could sue someone for a lot of things?
Maybe it's just like bury them in fees or something.
I don't know.
Yeah, probably.
All right, Cherk, see if this came through.
Hopefully my LTE is good.
Nope.
Not yet.
I'm, you can air drop it to my computer if that pops up.
Okay.
Yeah, there you go.
All right.
So he's still fucked?
Yeah.
I'm sick.
God damn, man.
Yeah, it's, I was watching this guy yesterday on Instagram, this fairly thin kit.
He wasn't, wasn't big, but he, he gained five inches, you know, he was like five, five,
nine, five, ten.
Yeah.
He's real happy with it.
But I was like, Jesus Christ.
And a year later, again, in crutches, one year later, took him a year and a half before
he could walk normally.
Yeah.
I mean, some people that's still worth it to not have to, yeah.
I guess.
Yeah.
I mean, if you're five feet tall and then also in your five, seven, I guess, see if it,
did it come through for you?
Yeah.
I was trying to figure out what to play.
I air drop this thing.
Oh, you got it.
I got it.
I got it on the screen.
No, nice.
Okay.
So, so this is 2023.
Oh, wow.
He did it way back then.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Look how skinny his legs are.
That's crazy.
How skinny his legs were.
To have that much mass up top, that's crazy.
Yeah.
That's probably the problem, right?
Well, it definitely is like I said, the most extreme of circumstances to impose for what
was seemingly a poor quality clinic.
And then also trying to go from a height that's objectively tall to a height that's objectively
extremely tall with the most heavy guy that's probably ever done the procedure, you
would think.
Yeah.
So at least 300 pounds.
Wait, I think he was a way more than that.
You would say like, hey, man, if you're going to do this, lose up or body weight and then
gain it back.
So you can give your legs a chance to grow.
Oh, my God.
That's so crazy.
It just makes me freak out because I'm getting anxiety.
They're just going to snap and he's going to fall over.
Yeah.
There definitely is something a little bit unnatural about watching even like the strikes on
the ground.
Yeah.
It makes you feel like something's just going to like snap.
Yeah.
But to his credit, I mean like the guy literally couldn't even walk before and he's, he's
optimistic about it.
Still, he thinks he's going to make a full recovery.
There is now in November, 2025. So that's two years later.
Two years later, he can walk.
There's just to run from a fire.
You know what I mean?
He's fucked.
For real.
Yeah.
Well, also the mechanics, like your body's used to moving legs that are six inches shorter.
And now like the knee has different pressure and you know, it's got to be really fucking
strange.
He said, let's see, bones are mostly healed.
Let's just have a lot of weakness as legs strengthen the pain decreases and the spasms.
So he's got to be on the sauce, too, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So even that's not helping.
Uh, I mean, if anything, it would be, it would help in some of the recovery for bone,
but it would also keep him yoked and like more pressure on that too.
So like maybe it's, yeah, it's a bit of a double edge sword there.
He says, uh, major hurdles, clear infection, knee tendon opathy will probably walk normal
within a couple of months, I can hop, but we'll need to strengthen much more in order to
really jump, jog and run, applying to have a US doctor fully fixing your remaining issues,
but for now, legs are good.
Why did he get his surgery done?
It was, uh, I did a podcast with them, um, last year.
And I think it was Thailand clinic.
Oh, boy, he did a bargain.
He got a bargain.
Did he do a group on?
It, it definitely wasn't the best show this guy got it.
He's nine years post surgery nine, they were doing this nine years ago.
So this guy, as far as I know, he is a bit of a unique case in that he was actually correcting
an asymmetry.
So he, uh, I'm almost positive.
I don't want to misspeak.
I'm sure he'll correct it if he sees us, but I'm pretty sure he had one leg was like
unusually asymmetrically shorter than the other one.
And then he was kind of evening and out to what would otherwise be his, you know, like
genetic symmetrical match.
Oh, I'm interested.
So there's different applications to which people do this.
And it's not always just like pure vanity.
I want to get, you know, really tall.
It's sometimes like to correct a functional like asymmetry.
Um, it's just, you know, a lot of people you hear about the cases of, I want to get really
tall for superficial reasons.
It's just a matter of time before they're just genetically engineering everybody to look
like Thor.
You know, this is a matter of time.
I think there's a lot of people that don't want this to work though too because it's like
if it's almost too easy or like, you know, doable, it's just like some people, I say a
lot of people unreasonably shit on these people.
And it's just like, you know, just take the conflict for a while to this, you know.
Yeah.
No, that's true.
But I'm saying about with the genetic engineering, there's a lot of people that are not want
fat to work either, but tough shit.
No.
You're not going to hold back science because you don't like the fact that if, like, especially
if someone has poor genetics and they just look gross and their whole life, they've
look gross, and then all of a sudden something comes along and you're a fucking supermodel
and you're six foot six and like, Mike, it's you.
What the fuck happened?
I went to this clinic in Turkey and look what they did.
Yeah, that was like, you're asking about what a bone smashing, what?
I just saw a video about this and thought it was fake, but this seems like a place to find
out of it's real.
Oh, yes, the people are like whatever they can do.
I'm pretty sure this is not like it's like a click baby thing among the people that do
this stuff.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
He's hitting himself with a fucking hammer.
So a kid was just using like a trophy just banging his face all day, like I've been doing
this for years.
So they like think that they can induce a cute like bone remodeling in the area to kind
of like enhance like, I don't know, as I go my development or what have you and get better,
you know, whatever asymmetry or deficiency they deemed to have cosmatically corrected.
And some of them, they're just punching their face essentially before they go out at
nighttime to get like a temporary pump in their cheeks.
So like think about back of the day when you went to the club and you're like, I want
to hit some first.
Yeah.
So like you're laughing and they're probably like the same thing, you're fucking punching
your cheekbones.
You get them stick out more.
Oh God, it's so dumb.
There's so much out there, man.
Oh, listen, man.
This is great.
Congratulations on this.
So for everybody that wants to buy it, girl of mine, I've been drinking it for two hours.
Now three almost.
It's great.
Works.
No, thank you.
I haven't had a cup of coffee the entire podcast.
That's unusual for me, but it tastes good too.
How many flavors you got?
A lot, man.
15 plus.
15.
We got to narrow it down to the best ones though, to really dial in the catalog.
But if someone wants to buy this order, where's it at?
Oh, girl of mine.com were in GNC's, vitamin shops across the country.
We're going to be in circle case soon and soon to be more spot, hopefully.
Congratulations on that.
And for everything else that you do, grillamine.com.
Yeah, yeah.
And miracle.com, if you want to get preventative medicine, expert oversight, when it comes to
diagnostics, optimization, et cetera.
All right, brother.
Well, it's always good to hang out with you.
Very fun.
Thanks for having me.
My pleasure.
And again, congratulations.
This is legit.
I'm going to buy it.
All right.
Bye, buddy.
See you.
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